marknorton Posted June 25, 2006 Share #41 Posted June 25, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) We're assuming there will be some unique processing in the camera (and the RAW plug-in) which will vary according to the taking lens being used. With a knowledge of how a particular lens design (not just focal length but likely lens model as well) interacts with the sensor, optimisation of the image can be done. Most recent lenses can be modified to have the new coding - 8 of mine are back at Solms at the moment. Because the processing is likely to be highly lens-unique, I expect it will not be possible to manually select the processing (because it might make the images worse if applied for the wrong lens). Equally, it will shut out third party lens suppliers like CV and Zeiss and provide an added incentive to stay loyal to Leica. Providing, of course, the benefits are clear to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2006 Posted June 25, 2006 Hi marknorton, Take a look here Digital M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mhoutman Posted June 25, 2006 Share #42 Posted June 25, 2006 Most recent lenses can be modified to have the new coding - 8 of mine are back at Solms at the moment. Mark, how long does it take to fit the new parts (bajonetring). (i.e how long will you miss them) In fact, as I decide to go digital too, I guess it is better to send them now than waiting tell years end when there will be a bulk of lenses for recoding. Is that assumption correct ? Michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 25, 2006 Share #43 Posted June 25, 2006 I had some other work to be done, so it made sense to send them all at the same time. It's early days - the factory only starts making lenses with the new coding on 3 July. From pictures it looks like the bayonet ring has pits milled into it and filled with white or black paint. What we don't know is what form the modification will take and whether, for upgrading an existing lens, they will add the dots to the existing ring or replace it. What I hope they do not do is a cheap modification with some sort of sticker... I don't expect to see my lenses back for a few weeks - they are a busy place - but I will post here my experience here. Up to now, my experience of Leica Customer Service is 100%. I think there will be an increase in interest once the M8 is announced and it's clear what the coding will do in terms of image quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted June 25, 2006 Share #44 Posted June 25, 2006 I had some other work to be done, so it made sense to send them all at the same time. It's early days - the factory only starts making lenses with the new coding on 3 July. From pictures it looks like the bayonet ring has pits milled into it and filled with white or black paint. What we don't know is what form the modification will take and whether, for upgrading an existing lens, they will add the dots to the existing ring or replace it. What I hope they do not do is a cheap modification with some sort of sticker... I don't expect to see my lenses back for a few weeks - they are a busy place - but I will post here my experience here. Up to now, my experience of Leica Customer Service is 100%. I think there will be an increase in interest once the M8 is announced and it's clear what the coding will do in terms of image quality. Mark, Thanks, from reading the latest LFI 2006/05 issue, I understand that they will replace the bajonetring only. Michiel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 25, 2006 Share #45 Posted June 25, 2006 Mark, Peltier cooling is a nice idea but the current flows would have to be quite high to cool a whole chip unless you could localise the cooling to specific hot spots. I know from my experience with a Peltier system, automobile cool box, that the current draw is quite high. When my cross-channel ferry was delayed about an hour and a half, I had the ignominy of being towed off the ferry with a flat battery and dumped on the quayside in Dieppe on a bank holiday. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 25, 2006 Share #46 Posted June 25, 2006 AFAIK a .72x finder magnification will not be large enough to focus 90/2 and 75/1.4 lenses at full aperture due to the crop factor and consequent reduction of circle of confusion. LCT-- I used to have those formulas for rangefinder accuracy, circle of confusion & depth of field etc, but have misplaced them or forgotten where they are. Could you let me know a source? I was under the impression that since the 'crop factor' is nothing other than a reduction in field of view, there would be no change in relative focusing accuracy of fast lenses, but looking at what you say, I think you may be right. At least we know from Leica's list of modifiable lenses that those folks lugging the 135/2.8 around all these years will get their reward: a 180/2.8 equivalent on a rangefinder body! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 25, 2006 Share #47 Posted June 25, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mark, Peltier cooling is a nice idea but the current flows would have to be quite high to cool a whole chip unless you could localise the cooling to specific hot spots. I know from my experience with a Peltier system, automobile cool box, that the current draw is quite high. When my cross-channel ferry was delayed about an hour and a half, I had the ignominy of being towed off the ferry with a flat battery and dumped on the quayside in Dieppe on a bank holiday. Wilson That must have been fun! What I've used before is a small pump, 20 * 20 mm bonded to the back of a chip; you more than double the total energy consumption but the chip runs cooler which was my objective. Don't think we'd ever see it in a consumer camera but it underlines the need to, as you say, avoid hot spots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 26, 2006 Share #48 Posted June 26, 2006 ...I used to have those formulas for rangefinder accuracy, circle of confusion & depth of field etc, but have misplaced them or forgotten where they are... To focus accurately a 90mm lens at f/2, the digital M would need an RF effective base length (EBL) value of 53.87mm if its mechanical base length is the same as that of current M cameras (69.25mm). It would then be necessary to get a finder magnification of .78x at least IMHO. To calculate EBL, you might wish to copy the spreadsheet below and type the following formula in the E3 case if you're used to use Microsoft Excel or same: =(A3*B3*B3)/(C3*D3) The basic formula being b' = (e * f^2) / (k * z) where b' is the effective base length, e the visual acuity (0.0003 at approx. 1 arcmin), f the focal length, k the aperture and z the circle of confusion (0.030/1.33=0.023mm). To calculate the required finder magnification, divide the EBL by the mechanical base length of the rangefinder: 53.87/69.25=0.78. Don't remember a source of those old formulas, sorry. ...At least we know from Leica's list of modifiable lenses that those folks lugging the 135/2.8 around all these years will get their reward: a 180/2.8 equivalent on a rangefinder body!. He he! Yes but it'll be a 180mm lens with goggles i.e. with some more magnification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 26, 2006 Share #49 Posted June 26, 2006 LCT--I used to have those formulas for rangefinder accuracy, circle of confusion & depth of field etc, but have misplaced them or forgotten where they are. Could you let me know a source? I was under the impression that since the 'crop factor' is nothing other than a reduction in field of view, there would be no change in relative focusing accuracy of fast lenses, but looking at what you say, I think you may be right. At least we know from Leica's list of modifiable lenses that those folks lugging the 135/2.8 around all these years will get their reward: a 180/2.8 equivalent on a rangefinder body! --HC I use a very nice little utility called DOF master (it's freeware I think), which runs on my Treo 650 phone. It gives you DOF obviously, for different focal lengths and apertures but you can also alter the COC for digitals with smaller sensors and it will give you hyperfocal distance etc. There may be a windows CE version as well as the Palm. You will have to Google it to find a download site. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 26, 2006 Share #50 Posted June 26, 2006 I use a very nice little utility called DOF master... Can be found here: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html One can use as well the hyperfocal formula where f is the focal length, N the f number and c the circle of confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mami Posted June 26, 2006 Share #51 Posted June 26, 2006 Is this to be a replacement for the Digilux-2? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted June 26, 2006 Share #52 Posted June 26, 2006 Is this to be a replacement for the Digilux-2? In a word: 'No'. This is the next step in the evolution of the Leica M. A thoroughbred rangefinder with exchangeable lenses capturing images on a chip rather than film. - C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 27, 2006 Share #53 Posted June 27, 2006 LCT & Wilson-- Great! Many thanks for the formula information. Something to mess around with while I wait for the digital M! --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddawn Posted June 28, 2006 Share #54 Posted June 28, 2006 At least we know from Leica's list of modifiable lenses that those folks lugging the 135/2.8 around all these years will get their reward: a 180/2.8 equivalent on a rangefinder body! --HC the 135 mm lenses are not supposed to be supported by the new digital M, if I am not mistaken...... or am i mistaken? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 28, 2006 Share #55 Posted June 28, 2006 the 135 mm lenses are not supposed to be supported by the new digital M, if I am not mistaken...... or am i mistaken? The Elmarit-M 135/2.8 will be supported and may get the new 6-bit coding as well. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/140-digital-m/?do=findComment&comment=2836'>More sharing options...
andrlik_mischa Posted June 28, 2006 Share #56 Posted June 28, 2006 leica means, the 135 is not supported http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/content/pdf/objektive/17.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrlik_mischa Posted June 28, 2006 Share #57 Posted June 28, 2006 oh, i am wrong, the 2,8/135 mm will be supported! it works with the 90mm-frame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 28, 2006 Share #58 Posted June 28, 2006 ...the 2' date='8/135 mm will be supported...[/quote']Exactly. It is listed in the link you're referring to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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