Using a Nikon Speedlight on an M9

[Reds]

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I'm shooting at a birthday/christmas party tonight. (An informal thing for a friend).

 

Just the sort of very low light thing I'd normally go straight to my old Nocti for and grab some candids. Not so good for shots with >1 person in frame though, as I can never get more than one eyelash in focus, - often at very high iso and around camera/subject shake territory.

 

If it was a paid job, I'd probably be loaded up with a Nikon hamper, but I'm travelling light and joining in the party today!

 

To my question then: Thinking of taking a flash to experiment with, for the odd bounce shot on-camera, with maybe a black flag velcroed to the flash, (planet Neil style).

 

I have an old Nikon SB-24, which I picked up used for about £60. I just put it on my M9 and fired off a few test shots. Seems to work fine - was using it in manual mode, (don't need ttl).

 

The pins on the flash are in the same configuration as the m's hotshoe contacts.

 

Anyone know if this likely to damage my M?.....Or have I just saved an iPad's worth of money on getting an SF-58 for occasional use only?

 

Would it hurt if I had the flash set on ttl mode? Not sure what goes through all those little pins apart from the firing pair..... For that matter - Anyone using an SB-800 here, or other similar speedlight for the same thing?

 

I mention these two Nikon flashes in particular, as they're 'relatively' small, so go quite nicely on the hotshoe and have tilt/swivel heads, which is def requirement. As I said - not bothered about ttl, I'm happy to work manual.

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[wudai_e]

I don't have a M9 but I have M8.2 and the SB800 Flash, My experience with that combo is if you set the SB800 in TTL with the M8, the flash simply won't fire. It has to be either in M mode or A mode.

 

I'll guess M9's flash circuitry works in similar fashion.

 

Hope this helps.

[Reds]

Yep - it doesn't work in ttl mode. (Not that I expected it to). The little flash symbol in the VF just flashes on and off and the underexposure arrow blinks. As long as it's safe to use - that's all I was worried about.

 

My SB-800 works too, which is great - It's even a little smaller than the SB-24.

[Luke_Miller]

I've used both the Nikon SB-25 and SB-800 on my M8.2 without incident. I typically use "A" mode and bounce the flash. Works very nicely if I remember to manually enter (on the flash) the ISO and aperture I'm using.

[Reds]

This is great news! Opens up possibilities of using slower glass (my Zeiss 35/2 & 25/2.8 for example), in low light when I want those focal lengths. Should be ideal for 'party' type situations, assuming there's something to bounce off.

 

Another question then. Does it matter if you don't enter the ISO & Aperture on the flash? Isn't the power setting in manual mode an 'absolute' thing. So all that's left to adjust is the zoom?

 

Looking forward to trying this out tonight now And I can still take just that small shoulder bag out...

[lars_bergquist]

In Manual, the flash just fires on regardless (unless it can be dialed down to a fractional power). You do all the computing. You can do that, making test exposures and evaluating them by the histogram, if you have a situation where you can use the same exposure for a long round of shots. Doing this for every "keeping" shot is just too cumbersome.

 

But in (external) Automatic, the sensor on the flash regulates the exposure. Then it is necessary to feed it the ISO and the aperture, because then the flash is supposed to do the computing.

 

The old man from the Age of Flashpowder

[ndjambrose]

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All Nikon flashes work perfectly with any M, providing you don't expect i-TTL.

 

I shoot all my wedding work using a relatively ancient SB-28. If you know how to use it the results are very good. You can use A mode as a baseline and get reasonably good results. If you're comfortable with flash, use manual mode and adjust output with power buttons on the flash unit and aperture on the camera. It can give very nuanced, subtle results.

 

...Or have I just saved an iPad's worth of money on getting an SF-58 for occasional use only?

 

Yes - that's exactly what you've done. Enjoy better results and spend your money elsewhere.

[hoppyman]

And the off-camera Nikon leads like the SC-17 work too (or the rarer Contax one), if you want to use a bracket or otherwise reposition/diffuse the flash. Watch out for deer in headlights as normal of course. Best to shoot a bunch of test shots with whatever you plan to use.

[Shade]

I am planning to purchase an SB400 to plant on the M9, but since it doesn't have any controls on the flash, how do you guys propose as to using it? I love it's size and compactness, and the ability to bounce as well.

 

But another issue is that I have been having some trouble trying to fit it into my M9's hotshoe, seems like my shoe is too tight and it's definitely very difficult to fit. I'm wondering if I will damage anything if I pushed it all the way.

[ndjambrose]

The SB-400 isn't suitable for an M. It only works on an Nikon because it doesn't have manual controls, so requires the camera to be in charge of metering and exposure via electronic coupling. It's designed to be a direct replacement for pop-up flash (using the same camera settings), but with the added feature of a directional head. It is not marketed as a general purpose flash unit.

[Steve Fines]

Tried a 580exII on an M9 last nice and was pleasantly surprised.

 

While a bother to adjust, if I was in a place where the shots would have about the same flash setting it would work quite well.

 

Other than the fact that the flash is bigger than the camera, of course.

[tdtaylor]

I am planning to purchase an SB400 to plant on the M9, but since it doesn't have any controls on the flash, how do you guys propose as to using it? I love it's size and compactness, and the ability to bounce as well.

 

But another issue is that I have been having some trouble trying to fit it into my M9's hotshoe, seems like my shoe is too tight and it's definitely very difficult to fit. I'm wondering if I will damage anything if I pushed it all the way.

 

Neil is absolutely correct- the Ms won't work with the Nikon SB400-what a pity- it is the perfect size for an M with a bounce.

 

As an aside, I also had trouble with the SB600, although the SB800 and SB900 work as described above. With the SB600, it may have been gray matter failure.

[lars_bergquist]

If you have trouble with a tight hotshoe, try lubricating either its inside, or the outside of the flash or finder foot, with soft pencil lead. Dry graphite is a much used lubricant.

 

The old man from the croquis sessions

[pgk]

I have an old Nikon SB-24, which I picked up used for about £60. I just put it on my M9 and fired off a few test shots. Seems to work fine - was using it in manual mode, (don't need ttl).

 

The pins on the flash are in the same configuration as the m's hotshoe contacts.

 

Anyone know if this likely to damage my M?

 

Would it hurt if I had the flash set on ttl mode?

I have a couple of SB24s. If you only intend using them as manual flashes you can do as I have done and take the bottom section apart so that you can remove all the pins except for except the centre one - this and the 'earth' (side) contact will allow the flash to fire. To do so takes a couple of minutes with a miniature philips screwdriver and can be reversed just as easily. Setting the flash to ttl afterwards will simply produce full power output as the flash receives no 'quench' signal. I personally would not use an unmodified SB24 on a Leica as the pins align - on the precautionary principle if nothing else.

[Shade]

Thanks for the inputs guys - what a pity, the sb400 is just the size I would love on my M9. I have the sf58, but at times its just too large for casual photography.. I would only take it for a paid job. For dinner with friends and family, I would like a small flash that bounce.

 

If I remembered correctly, the panasonic 4/3 camera L1 has a built in flash that bounces, his amazing is that. I wonder why leica wouldn't adopt it in their design..

[Nick_Yoon]

I use an SB28 occasionally, with mine if I lock it down with the thumb screw the flash won't fire. It only works without tightening the screw. Maybe the tightening is moving the pins out of alignment?

[Shade]

Funny, I have never heard about the flash not working if you tighten it, but you may have answered your own question.. The pin mightve moved out of position when you tightened your flash..

[leica5]

Hi, I am temped to use Nikon SB 26 and 800 but wonder if voltage is a concen as far as M9 is oncerned. I agree SF 58 is abeast on hot shoe.; I also am looking for compatible small bounce fash;I have tried SF 20 which didn't work properly and it did n't engage smoothly in hot shoe of M9 but works fine with M6TTL Camera.

 

 

Sami.

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[marknorton]

I wonder how many times this issue has been raised by those paranaoid that a flash is going to wipe out their camera?

 

First, the M8/M9 has a high voltage transistor to trigger the flash, if you look at my anatomy thread, you can see it connected directly to the hot shoe centre pin.

 

Secondly, only the oldest flashes use a high voltage trigger line. They used a pulse transformer to present an even higher voltage to a trigger electrode in the flash tube which in turn ionised the xenon gas to make it conductive and effectively present a short circuit to the flash capacitor; however, once started, the discharge process could not be stopped until the flash capacitor was completely discharged.

 

The earliest automatic flashes which needed to shorten the flash duration used a separate "qunech tube" to divert the residual charge but even the shortest flash required a full recharge of the capacitor.

 

With the advent of high voltage thyristors, it was possible to stop the main flash in its tracks, preserve the remaining charge in the flash capacitor and have much shorter recycling times when the full power was not required. Any such flash will not present a high voltage to the hot shoe. Another reason why flashes have moved away from high voltage triggering is because they presented a minor shock hazard to wet hands.

 

To reassure yourself, why not use a voltmeter and measure it yourself - centre pin positive, side shoe contact negative. If you don't have or cannot borrow a voltmeter, you can buy one at B&Q (UK), Home Depot (US) for much less than the price of a Leica rear lens cap. Think of the empowerment of being able to make your own decision as to whether a flash is safe! Anything less than 100 - 200 v will be fine.

[charlesphoto99]

One thing I found helpful when using the SB800 on my M9 is to set the flash sleep mode to off. Otherwise it's a real pain in the ass to wake up when you need it.