Using my m8

[Gerjan]

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I have taken about 1000 pictures with my super m8 for 12 months.

Last week i have used auto iso and auto shutter all THE time. Ev at -2/3.

There is à lot off snow THE results are perfect.

I also have à m6 and that's why i never used automatic at all.

Is there abig difference between using auto or manual?

Thank you for An answer!!

Gerjan

[MikeD700]

How is it possible snow pictures are perfectly exposed when you're underexposing? I would have thought overexposing one or two stops would be appropriate in predominantly white conditions?

[jaapv]

What I was going to say; I would set EV comp to +1.0, if I would go off manual (which not

[dpitt]

What I was going to say; I would set EV comp to +1.0, if I would go off manual (which not

Strange!

I would say so too.

Yesterday I was shooting Auto +1.0 with my (new to me) M8 in the snow.

Strangely enough most shots were overexposed between .5 and 1.0 stop.

 

They were salvageable because I shot DNG, but I was surprised.

Does the meter in the M8 work differently from that in other camera's?

[Gerjan]

Thanks for the answers but is -ev for underexposure and +ev for overexposure?

I never understand the difference between -ev or +ev ?

Please give me An answer!

Gerjan

[MikeD700]

Yep. That's it in a nutshell. Please read in to something simple on exposure metering; it'll help you.

 

Or think of a chessboard (same number of black and white squares), a whiteboard and a blackboard, all under the same lighting, and try to imagine what your exposure meter will make of it, and what you want the final image to look like. B&W, white, black... You exposure meter measures reflected light; keep that in mind.

 

I've read here somewhere (JaapV knows endlessly more about that) that the M8's meter needs to be "underexposing" to get correct results. That could be part of the explanation you still got acceptable "white snow" results.

[Clive Murray-White]

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I think we should have a little more information Gerjan, you say:

 

There is à lot off snow THE results are perfect.

 

But the most important thing is that you didn't say what you were pointing the camera at, my guess is that it was actually darker than mid grey.

 

If you were metering straight off white snow, the camera would presume that it was actually mid grey and you picture would come out too dark - hence the +ev advice.

 

This situation is when a "grey card" to take your reading off comes in very handy. Another very quick way of making sure that exposures are good is to use the histogram as something to guide your choice to + or -

[WestMichigan]

Just to be 'odd',

Daylight photography with oodles of photons mucking around is also a great time to employ the handy 'Sunny f16' Rule!

ie: When it's Sunny, Shutter Speed equals 1/(ISO Setting or Film Speed), with Aperture of f16.

If 'said' shutter speed isn't desired or the aperture is unsuitable for either technical or aesthetic purposes - Then Employ 'The Law Of Reciprocity' to adjust the above formula to achieve a completely Equivalent (ie: Reciprocal) Exposure that gives either the Shutter Speed or the Aperture one Desires.

Richard in Michigan

 

(Sunny f16 Rule isn't Deadly Accurate in all situations, but is surprisingly usable as long as one knows one's Aperture and Shutter Speed 'Steps' appropriatlely!)

I think we should have a little more information Gerjan, you say:

 

There is à lot off snow THE results are perfect.

 

But the most important thing is that you didn't say what you were pointing the camera at, my guess is that it was actually darker than mid grey.

 

If you were metering straight off white snow, the camera would presume that it was actually mid grey and you picture would come out too dark - hence the +ev advice.

 

This situation is when a "grey card" to take your reading off comes in very handy. Another very quick way of making sure that exposures are good is to use the histogram as something to guide your choice to + or -

[Shootist]

Strange!

I would say so too.

Yesterday I was shooting Auto +1.0 with my (new to me) M8 in the snow.

Strangely enough most shots were overexposed between .5 and 1.0 stop.

 

They were salvageable because I shot DNG, but I was surprised.

Does the meter in the M8 work differently from that in other camera's?

 

I find the M8 meter to be a bit on the over exposure side. I always have my camera set to -1/3. Recently I changed that to 0 comp and found, at least to my eye, the shots to be to bright. So I went back to -1/3.

[farnz]

... I've read here somewhere (JaapV knows endlessly more about that) that the M8's meter needs to be "underexposing" to get correct results.

Mike,

 

It's not that the M8's meter needs underexposure to produce correct results, many M8 users deliberately underexpose to protect detail in the highlights. With digital files, once the highlights are overexposed any detail in them will be lost and cannot be rescued in post processing.

 

Shadow detail, on the other hand, is very tolerant of underexposure (blocking) in the M8 because the digital to analogue conversion weights the levels towards the dark end. Shadows where the detail looks to be completely lost owing to underexposure can be surprisingly recovered using Shadows and Highlights tool in Photoshop.

 

Pete.

[farnz]

... Is there abig difference between using auto or manual?

Thank you for An answer!!

Gerjan

Gerjan,

 

To try to answer your original question, there can be a big difference between using auto and manual in the M8 if the light conditions are unusual or complex and the snow shots you've mentioned is a good example.

 

The M8 meters by measuring the average light that reflects off the white strip on the shutter blades, expecting it to be 18% grey and gives approximately an 'oval' centre-weighted reading which is a little wider than most other cameras. For most scenes this is fine and will give accurate exposure.

 

But where lighting conditions aren't roughly 18% grey, such as in snowy scenes and in coal cellars then the metering mechanism can be fooled. In these instances I use incident light readings from a handheld exposure meter and switch the M8 to manual exposure.

 

Pete.

[MikeD700]

Mike,

 

It's not that the M8's meter needs underexposure to produce correct results, many M8 users deliberately underexpose to protect detail in the highlights. With digital files, once the highlights are overexposed any detail in them will be lost and cannot be rescued in post processing.

 

Shadow detail, on the other hand, is very tolerant of underexposure (blocking) in the M8 because the digital to analogue conversion weights the levels towards the dark end. Shadows where the detail looks to be completely lost owing to underexposure can be surprisingly recovered using Shadows and Highlights tool in Photoshop.

 

Pete.

 

Thanks Pete! (Still looks like underexposing vs the exposure meter to me ). I've got 3D matrix metering. Oh well...

[WestMichigan]

Hi Mike,

I've got two comments to share. A) I 'Only' have the 'Aged' Metering System in my EOS-20D running my Automation, yet it still tends to Atrophy my Metering Skills with it's tendencies toward excellence. & I wish there was an EOS available with as highly rated Light Metering and Flash Metering as Nikons have been sporting for awhile now.

3D Matrix Metering is something which moves some Photog's to Genuflect when they say it. I'm not speaking Entirely in Hyperbole, either.

Sigh

Richard in Michigan

 

Thanks Pete! (Still looks like underexposing vs the exposure meter to me ). I've got 3D matrix metering. Oh well...

[farnz]

Thanks Pete! (Still looks like underexposing vs the exposure meter to me ). I've got 3D matrix metering. Oh well...

Mike,

 

I think you may be missing my point. For scenes with dynamic range that's within the M8's sensor's exposure latitude (around 8 stops I think) the exposure meter will produce accurately exposed photos at 0 exposure compensation.

 

But where the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the M8's sensor's exposure latitude, for example at midday on a sunny day, then it's a good idea to deliberately underexpose so that detail is retained in the highlights. Otherwise bright objects, like white sheets on a washing line, will be beyond the M8's dynamic range and will overexpose so that the faint shadows in the furls will be lost and unrecoverable.

 

Pete.

[MikeD700]

Hi Mike,

I've got two comments to share. A) I 'Only' have the 'Aged' Metering System in my EOS-20D running my Automation, yet it still tends to Atrophy my Metering Skills with it's tendencies toward excellence. & I wish there was an EOS available with as highly rated Light Metering and Flash Metering as Nikons have been sporting for awhile now.

3D Matrix Metering is something which moves some Photog's to Genuflect when they say it. I'm not speaking Entirely in Hyperbole, either.

Sigh

Richard in Michigan

 

I must admit I had to loo up "genuflect"... And I should have added the 3d matrix thingey makes me lazy. Nevertheless, just took three moonlight lit (actually, no moonlight; just city lights lit haze past midnight) shots @ +/-0, -1, -2... (3200 ISO; 24G @ f2, handheld of course), and the display says (as I expected) the underexposed ones are best (-1 looks most accurate; holding camera, display on, next to the real thing). Unless you want a night shot to look like a day shot.

 

Now on to Pete...

[MikeD700]

Mike,

 

I think you may be missing my point. For scenes with dynamic range that's within the M8's sensor's exposure latitude (around 8 stops I think) the exposure meter will produce accurately exposed photos at 0 exposure compensation.

 

But where the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the M8's sensor's exposure latitude, for example at midday on a sunny day, then it's a good idea to deliberately underexpose so that detail is retained in the highlights. Otherwise bright objects, like white sheets on a washing line, will be beyond the M8's dynamic range and will overexpose so that the faint shadows in the furls will be lost and unrecoverable.

 

Pete.

 

Pete, hopefully I didn't. But then I'm just shouting in the dark; not having any experience whatsoever with an M8 (or M8.2, or M9).

 

I thought the problem (if any) lay with the centre weighted nature of the exposure meter. We all used that years ago and learned to work with it, though technology has certainly progressed since then (hence the 3d colour matrix thingey). 8EV range doesn't sound like much; am I right?

 

To both Pete and Richard in M: I'm in line for a well used RTS III; looking forward...

[WestMichigan]

Hi Mike,

An RTS III Huh? Kewl Beans. I must admit to having looked at a gazillion ebay listing for RTS's Cameras trolling for deals on Zeiss Outfits - Mainly in hopes I'd scoop up a bargain on some nice Zeiss Glass to use on my 20D. I put that search aside when a quite nice fellow gave me an excellent deal on a Leica R Summicron Fifty and an Elmarit Ninety. (Half the market price!) The 8mp of my 20D doesn't exactly 'stress' either one's capability, but I look forward to putting both to use with a high resolution sensor one day.

 

Richard in Mi

 

And By The Way!

Doesn't your Friend with the M8 let you at least hold it once in awhile? You sure worked hard to push his buttons in that X1 vs M8 thread of his!

You'd think you'd at least get to 'babysit' it when he's out to see a movie or something with all the egging on to 'go for it' you did. You played a 'Crucial' role in putting that bugger in his hand, did you not?

 

To both Pete and Richard in M: I'm in line for a well used RTS III; looking forward...

[MikeD700]

Hi Mike,

An RTS III Huh? Kewl Beans. I must admit to having looked at a gazillion ebay listing for RTS's Cameras trolling for deals on Zeiss Outfits - Mainly in hopes I'd scoop up a bargain on some nice Zeiss Glass to use on my 20D. I put that search aside when a quite nice fellow gave me an excellent deal on a Leica R Summicron Fifty and an Elmarit Ninety. (Half the market price!) The 8mp of my 20D doesn't exactly 'stress' either one's capability, but I look forward to putting both to use with a high resolution sensor one day.

 

Richard in Mi

 

And By The Way!

Doesn't your Friend with the M8 let you at least hold it once in awhile? You sure worked hard to push his buttons in that X1 vs M8 thread of his!

You'd think you'd at least get to 'babysit' it when he's out to see a movie or something with all the egging on to 'go for it' you did. You played a 'Crucial' role in putting that bugger in his hand, did you not?

 

 

Never try to pry a toy from a boy's hands...

 

I'm looking forward to "handling" that RTS III; it's been used by a professional photographer and comes with the 85 Sonnar; maybe the 25 Distagon as well. It's a real machine I think; built like a tank. Won't use it much though as it's film.

 

 

[drdannn]

Underexposing 1/3 is generally an OK idea. I learn more about photography when I simply set the ev at 0. The m8 sensor does not have a 20+ evaluative sensor. The Leica m8 exposure is heavily center weighted. So there's a couple of things you can do. 1. Find the photo you want to take, then take 3 exposures moving the camera slightly up or down for each shot; I mean very slightly. You will find that by doing this you will have 3 completely different exposures because the camera is center weighted.

 

2. What I do sometimes is leave the camera at 0 ev and take the camera off the Automatic setting. I use the shutter speed dial to change my exposure. I have a soft release button that allows me to move the shutter dial with my finger tip, and take the photo with the middle part of my index finger; hence, I never have to move my finger back and forth. This method gives me the most learning experience. Try to pixel peep as little as possible. You can pretty much guess that on a snowy, sunny day you are going to be around f16 and 1/1000th, maybe even 1/2000th. Give that a shot first and go from there. Soon you will get a feel for it. And too, if your subject it in front of a bright amount of snow, you will know you need to start out at , say f16 and 1/750th so you expose correctly for your subject. The more you stay off the automatic setting of the camera, the more you learn and it becomes second nature.

 

3. Aim the center of the frame at the area you want to be properly exposed.

Good luck, DF

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