Pre-asph 35mm Summilux f1.4 (M) question

[Nick De Marco]

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I have ofetn hankered after this lens, as I love 35mm, fast lenses and small ones. I don't need ultra sharp and don't intend to use on a digital camera. I haven't bought one so far as I am not convinced the price justifies it, especially as I have the Nokton 35/1.4 already (which is 35mm, small and fast, and I have enjoyed it).

 

But I have the opportunity to buy one at a discounted price because there is a scratch on the rear element. The scratch is maybe a c.m. or less long, and very thin. It is not bank in the middle of the rear element, but quite near the edge (perhaps 2/3rds between the middle and edge, close to the edge).

 

I am told it should not affect image quality unless I shoot into bright light, but obviously I cannot be certain. I think the lens is about £300 less the best used price I have seen for one as a result.

 

My questions to lens experts out there are:

 

1. Is the rear element scratch likely to matter so much I will see a noticeable deterioation of images taken on film?

 

2. Is the lens better than the Nokton f1.4 (which I understand is based on its design), apart from it being a nicer smaller size and its buold quality which is mitigated by the scratch, to justify buying it?

 

If the answers are yes, I shall try too get it for less money still, but I'm not sure at present whether ti is worth considering.

 

Many thanks in advance for any advice received.

 

Nick

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[pgk]

Nick

 

small scratches will do little other than to cause potential flare if used in trying situations. If the scratch is light then I'd doubt that you will be able to tell that it exists by looking at images - it is possible to blacken it with a suitable pen which will reduce the flare and reduce light transmission by a miniscule amount. I wouldn't worry unless the scratch is distinct and deep.

 

I haven't used the Nokton but have in the (film) past owned the 35mm pre-asph 'lux and found it to be a very nice little lens to use - if I didn't have the asph. version I'd be tempted on one myself - which produced very acceptable results (even wide-open at times).

[Xmas]

Hi

 

The scratch is not critical to performance.

 

The lux was a statement lens from '62 (I think) at /5.6 is is comparable in micro contrast to current lenses,

 

The Nockton should be better at f/1.4 the modern high refractive glass and more modern coating should allow it to be better, you wont detect the difference at /5.6 but should at /1.4.

 

The modern Leica 35mm /1.4 are big, donno what Leica are doing.

 

I'll stick with my lux but If I had a CV I'd stick with that.

 

Noel

[pico]

The early (version 2) 35mm Summilux is my worst lens that I like the most. Soft with subtle halos in contrasty adjancies wide open, sharp enough and still Leica-like stopped down. Compact. Go for it.

[Nick De Marco]

Thanks for the very imformative replies

 

My original post may have misled - it's not £300 (otherwise I would have bought it yesterday!) but £790 - which is about £300 less than the price I see other used ones going for. And just found out I cannot get the price down any further.

 

 

 

However, I am inclined to buy if I can give it one more test.

 

 

 

Nick

[archi4]

in the case of wide angle lenses in general scratches on the front element will not affect image quality as much as scratches on the rear element.

A single clean scratch is not as bad as the multiple scratches due to excessive cleaning.

I sold a really clean late lens (German Titanium finish) like this with no scratches at all and a very late number (36xxxxxx) made in Germany much too cheaply for 1200 Euros (about 1000 pounds)and the buyer was extremely happy.

Please make sure it will focus to infinity on an M8/M9. Some of these lenses have a shroud around the rear element that will foul on these cameras

Don't try judging the quality at 1.4 but check it at 2.0 and 2.8. My lens was superbly sharp at 2.8 and very much so at 2.0

[adan]

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Rear-element scratches can be very serious. A fellow student was showing us a multimedia presentation when I was in college, and we wondered why all his wide pix looked like they had been shot with a soft-focus filter (glows around everything). Turned out he had several scratches on the rear element of his Nikkor 24mm.

 

So I would definitely TEST this lens. It may not make much difference, since the 35 'lux pre-ASPH is already pretty "dreamy" @ f/1.4 anyway. But the scratch may make it "dreamy" at all the other apertures, too. =8^o

 

I bought one when I first got my M9 (fitted fine in my case) - the only real drawback that made me switch to a 'cron was the 1-meter close-focus limit. As archi4 says, essentially a v.4 Summicron from f/2 on down.

[lct]

I have both a late (1989) pre-asph Summilux and the CV 35/1.4 SC.

The CV is sharper at f/1.4 and f/2 but shows focus shift at f/2.8 and on where the Summilux is significantly sharper.

Same smooth bokeh with both lenses.

Much flare with the CV, a bit less with the Lux but flare is a problem with both lenses.

Famous glow at f/1.4 with the Lux, no glow at all with the CV.

[thomasw_]

a key with a v2 pre-asph lux is to use the rectangular hood 12526; it will solve a lot of the veiling flare problems. if the .9m MFD is lame for you -- it was for me -- get the goggled m3-variant v2 lux (over SN 2.2 million) and you can close focus to ,65m.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Rear element scratches are more detrimental to performance than front element scratches. I also had a Nikkor wide angle lens with rear element scratches and although the dealer said it would be ok, the results were obviously soft. Maybe you should consider whether you might wish to sell the lens at a later date and whether someone else would pay over £700 for it. I would not want to pay that much for lens I could not sell easily.

 

And does it have the correct hood?

 

dunk

[roguewave]

Nick, the 35M summilux pre asph is my favorite Leica lens in the M system. With film, TriX 400, Neopan 1600, it is magical. It has a cult status for a reason. The bokeh is unmatched in film for both it's smoothness and a "natural" look, unlike those razor sharp, hyper-real images from the newer Summilux ASPH lenses. Although the new 24 Lux ASPH can produce amazing images, along with the new 50 Summilux, they just don't have that true "film" quality, to my eye. They match up much better with digital M's.

 

I bought my first 35 pre asph Lux in 1974 and have NEVER been without one. By far, it has allowed me to make my best images, hands down. BTW, it's so small & compact. On my M2 or M8 it's pure magic in the bottle. If you buy this lens, you will never be without one again. I promise.

 

Here's an example: on a very dark street in Harlem, well after 3:00 AM. one light source (street lamp). Shot wide open.

 

 

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[archi4]

One word - Beautiful

 

maurice

[topoxforddoc]

Nick,

 

It's my favourite M lens too. I don't mind the alleged softness wide open. What's important is how you use it and whether you'll take it with you. I use it for 90% of all my M shots. I take it everywhere - when attached to a M body, it fits into a coat pocket. Yes it's soft wide open, but stopped down a bit, it's perfectly fine.

 

Best wishes,