Bellows II, 16598J & 280mm Telyt

[k-hawinkler]

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Luigi, Jan,

 

Many thanks for your help. So far, I had attached the Telyt 280/4.8 v3 via Viso III to the M9. In order to rule out any problems associated with the Viso, I attached the Telyt via an adapter to my Nikon D3 and made the following observation: Shooting on a tripod in a fairly low light scenario it noticed that this whitish circular feature seems to become more prominent the further one stops down. I have never seen this on any of my other lenses. So I have concluded that this particular lens has serious/fatal issues and I will send it to a qualified technician first thing in the morning.

 

Thanks again for your feedback. I greatly appreciate it and will keep you in the info loop once I hear back from the technician.

 

Best, K-H.

 

 

So, the lens came back from the technician who removed haze from several surfaces.

I think it would be appropriate to report back here what difference the cleaning made.

As all my VisoFlex III are being CLA'ed right now I attached the lens to a Nikon D3 and

tried to recreate a similar situation in which I first noticed the problem.

 

Here is again the old image with the problem

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and here is a new image, shot with f/11 and 1/125 s

 

Although this is not a definitive proof, the cleaning seems to have made the lens useable.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Best, K-H.

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[jc_braconi]

This lens had a cataract before !

[k-hawinkler]

that looks like a reflection of the sensor on the last lens element and back....

o.k...the picture is overexposed, with correct exposing, you can not see it that strong.....

 

[ATTACH]241632[/ATTACH]

 

regards,

Jan

 

 

Hi Jan,

 

Many thanks for this feedback. I don't know which 3 lens surfaces the technician cleaned.

However, in hindsight I believe you were absolutely correct on both counts. Thanks again.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

This lens had a cataract before !

 

Hi JC,

 

I borrowed your phrase http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/171039-before-after-lens-cataract-operation.html. Thanks.

 

Best, K-H.

[luigi bertolotti]

Hey, K-H, in the meantime, the slow-answering COMA has told me that they can make a quotation for a copy of the 14138 ring... maybe in 1 month or so I'll have it... I let you know something about...

[k-hawinkler]

Hey, K-H, in the meantime, the slow-answering COMA has told me that they can make a quotation for a copy of the 14138 ring... maybe in 1 month or so I'll have it... I let you know something about...

 

Hi Luigi,

 

Many thanks. That's great news.

I am sending you a PM with my email address.

Could you please arrange for me to get a quotation as well. Thanks.

 

BTW, I finally managed to get one copy of the 14138 ring.

It came with another complete Telyt 280/4.8 v3 and a Televit.

That Televit has a lot more resistance when turning the know than the one that came with my Telyt 400/5.6.

It also looks a little bit different at the tail end just below where it attaches to the Visoflex.

 

Also, my two v3 Telyts look a little bit different. They look like the v3 images displayed by JC and me in http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1589856-post78.html.

 

I seem to be ending up with more than one copy of a number of Leitz items by now.

Comparing two copies can be very enlightening.

For example, my first Tele-Elmar 135/4, although a stellar performer, has a wobbly M-bayonet focus mount and a sleeve is missing around the the camera end of the lens head as compared to a recent copy I got. This sleeve has to be taken off before the lens head can be screwed into the focus mount for the Visoflex. Go figure.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Best, K-H.

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello K-H,

 

I think the sleeves were only used on the earlier Tele-Elmars. My Lager III says they stopped providing them because they found them to be unnecessary about 1967. This does not coincide w/ changing the focussing mounts w/ knurled dimples & smooth peaks to the ubiquitous less costly continuous knurled w/o dimples mount which appears to have begun after 1969. The change from red scale to yellow scale was after 1965.

 

The wiki @ the top of this page says T-E production in 1967 was 2,000 lenses. All w/ dimpled knurls & yellow scales #s 2,231,801 thru 2,233,800.

 

The lens to have.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[k-hawinkler]

Hi Michael,

 

Many thanks for the info. My TE 135/4 without a sleeve has SN# 2421xxx and is from 1970.

The one with a sleeve has SN# 2145xxx and is from 1965.

That is consistent with your info.

 

Again many thanks.

 

Best Regards, K-H.

[Telyt2003]

Hello together,

this is a test. If it works, I will post my experience with another interesting application of the 280 mm Telyt type3.

Best regards,

Telyt2003

 

Dear all,

I formerly could not discuss with you, because for unknown reasons, my posts didn't become visible for everybody (now this is apparently fixed, and the above post was activated retrogradely).

 

Most of my contributions on the main issue of this thread (variants of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 and a potential change in the greater thread of its head), I had made in the meantime in the German section.

Shortly summarised, according to my experience, the threads of the heads of the Telyts 280/4,8 (at least the versions 2 and 3 which I have seen so far) have been the same, and there was no change of these threads in the transition from version 2 to version 3.

- Thus, all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly took the Televit adapter 14138 for adaptation to the Televit via their greater thread.

- And all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly screwed into the Focorapid via their smaller thread (heads of the version 3 normally need a minor, reversible, modification to do so). NB: I generally skip the Focorapid adapter 14112 for reasons explained elsewhere, please see the links below.

- However, I do not know if the greater thread may have perhaps changed in the last small production runs of the version 3, since I have never had one in my hands (there are at least some minor differences in these very late lenses).

 

Concluding, I would not expect the greater thread of the versions 2 and 3 of the Telyt 280/4,8 heads to be different since they both take the same Televit adapter 14138 (this appears to be the case for at least the vast majority of version 3 heads). Therefore, I would be very hesitating to screw any head of a Telyt 280/4,8 (also not the versions 3 which I know of) directly into the bellows 2. The respective threads appear to be very similar, but slightly different with a different pitch (They can be brought together, but do not engage correctly).

 

The (optically superior) head of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 can also be used in the Focorapid (after a minor modification of the head):

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1577228-post6.html

 

Moreover omitting the Focorapid adapter 14112 opens new possibilities: Now the Telyt 280/4,8 heads can be used with the Apo-Extenders-R, Visoflex and M and the full focus range (including infinity) is preserved:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1734858-post12.html

 

Best regards,

Telyt2003

Edited June 14, 2011 by Telyt2003
typo

[k-hawinkler]

Dear all,

I formerly could not discuss with you, because for unknown reasons, my posts didn't become visible for everybody (now this is apparently fixed, and the above post was activated retrogradely).

 

Most of my contributions on the main issue of this thread (variants of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 and a potential change in the greater thread of its head), I had made in the meantime in the German section.

Shortly summarised, according to my experience, the threads of the heads of the Telyts 280/4,8 (at least the versions 2 and 3 which I have seen so far) have been the same, and there was no change of these threads in the transition from version 2 to version 3.

- Thus, all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly took the Televit adapter 14138 for adaptation to the Televit via their greater thread.

- And all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly screwed into the Focorapid via their smaller thread (heads of the version 3 normally need a minor, reversible, modification to do so). NB: I generally skip the Focorapid adapter 14112 for reasons explained elsewhere, please see the links below.

- However, I do not know if the greater thread may have perhaps changed in the last small production runs of the version 3, since I have never had one in my hands (there are at least some minor differences in these very late lenses).

 

Concluding, I would not expect the greater thread of the versions 2 and 3 of the Telyt 280/4,8 heads to be different since they both take the same Televit adapter 14138 (this appears to be the case for at least the vast majority of version 3 heads). Therefore, I would be very hesitating to screw any head of a Telyt 280/4,8 (also not the versions 3 which I know of) directly into the bellows 2. The respective threads appear to be very similar, but slightly different with a different pitch (They can be brought together, but do not engage correctly).

 

The (optically superior) head of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 can also be used in the Focorapid (after a minor modification of the head):

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1577228-post6.html

 

Moreover omitting the Focorapid adapter 14112 opens new possibilities: Now the Telyt 280/4,8 heads can be used with the Apo-Extenders-R, Visoflex and M and the full focus range (including infinity) is preserved:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1734858-post12.html

 

Best regards,

Telyt2003

 

 

Thanks for the caution. That seems to be the case.

Also, using just the lens head on the Bellows II doesn't seem to buy any additional functionality.

 

Best, K-H.

[luigi bertolotti]

Dear all,

I formerly could not discuss with you, because for unknown reasons, my posts didn't become visible for everybody (now this is apparently fixed, and the above post was activated retrogradely).

 

Most of my contributions on the main issue of this thread (variants of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 and a potential change in the greater thread of its head), I had made in the meantime in the German section.

Shortly summarised, according to my experience, the threads of the heads of the Telyts 280/4,8 (at least the versions 2 and 3 which I have seen so far) have been the same, and there was no change of these threads in the transition from version 2 to version 3.

- Thus, all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly took the Televit adapter 14138 for adaptation to the Televit via their greater thread.

- And all version 2 and all version 3 heads which I have seen so far directly screwed into the Focorapid via their smaller thread (heads of the version 3 normally need a minor, reversible, modification to do so). NB: I generally skip the Focorapid adapter 14112 for reasons explained elsewhere, please see the links below.

- However, I do not know if the greater thread may have perhaps changed in the last small production runs of the version 3, since I have never had one in my hands (there are at least some minor differences in these very late lenses).

 

Concluding, I would not expect the greater thread of the versions 2 and 3 of the Telyt 280/4,8 heads to be different since they both take the same Televit adapter 14138 (this appears to be the case for at least the vast majority of version 3 heads). Therefore, I would be very hesitating to screw any head of a Telyt 280/4,8 (also not the versions 3 which I know of) directly into the bellows 2. The respective threads appear to be very similar, but slightly different with a different pitch (They can be brought together, but do not engage correctly).

 

The (optically superior) head of the Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 can also be used in the Focorapid (after a minor modification of the head):

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1577228-post6.html

 

Moreover omitting the Focorapid adapter 14112 opens new possibilities: Now the Telyt 280/4,8 heads can be used with the Apo-Extenders-R, Visoflex and M and the full focus range (including infinity) is preserved:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1734858-post12.html

 

Best regards,

Telyt2003

 

My 280V3 (head only) is of the very last batch of 280s (see post #63 of this LONG thread...) : the thread is exactly the same of my V2... and goes SMOOTH on the Bellows 2... ... I'm even prone to speculate if the 280V3 were slightly different (just in the above threads) depending on they were built/sold as complete lens for Viso or as lenshead only... they had, of course, a different code and, notice, the focusing mount only was NOT offered separately to "upgrade" a lenshead (differently from which they did years before, for instance, with the 90-135s, where you could buy the lenshead and THEN, as a separate item, the focusing mount).

Edited June 14, 2011 by luigi bertolotti

[Telyt2003]

My 280V3 (head only) is of the very last batch of 280s (see post #63 of this LONG thread...) : the thread is exactly the same of my V2... and goes SMOOTH on the Bellows 2... ...

 

Hi Luigi,

that's interesting! So if the greater threads of the heads of your most recent Telyt 280/4,8 version 3 AND of an older version 2 are "exactly the same" (as you say, and as I would probably agree), then also the head of the version 2 should, in principle, screw directly into the bellows 2, shouldn't it?

However, the head of my Telyt 280/4,8 version 2 would not smoothly screw into the bellows 2 (as would not the head of my version 3), because the threads (of the Telyt heads and of the bellows 2) are only very similar, but not identical.

Or, in other words, the threads of the bellows 2 and of the Televit adapter 14138 are not exactly the same.

 

Please don't understand me wrongly, I am just telling my hesitation to (unnecessarily) bring two threads together that only nearly fit.

Best regards,

Telyt2003

 

PS: I know this long thread 1735337 quite well, and for sure your post 63 from which I would like to cite here :-)

 

...and here is IT... from the last batch of 200 items made in 1980 (3.059.688), lenshead 11904 with Televit adapter 14138 ... First verification, given how this thread started : the lens' head FITS perfectly the bellows 2, the screw-in is not so soft... an action to be made carefully... but the threads are undoubtly the same ones

 

Compared to your recent statement above ("... goes SMOOTH on the bellows 2"), reading your differing original statement "the screw-in is not so soft... an action to be made carefully" rings the alarm bell in me :-). I assume this is exactly like one would say that the threads (of the Telyt head version 3 and of the bellows 2) do NOT engage perfectly, but can be brought together with great care, albeit of slightly different size and of different pitch.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Telyt2003

[k-hawinkler]

It would be nice if somebody could perform accurate measurements. I don't have the tools.

I played a little more with my version 3 and believe now that the following statement by Telyt2003 is correct:

 

"Or, in other words, the threads of the bellows 2 and of the Televit adapter 14138 are not exactly the same."

 

I can screw the 280/4.8 version 3, SN# 27578xx lens head real tightly into the 14138 but not into the bellows 2.

It goes in alright - but not tightly.

 

Best, K-H.

[luigi bertolotti]

Oh well... I cannot imagine a better scene than me, Karl Heinz and "Telyt2003", together in Provence (JC home, of course...), with a bottle of his excellent wine, all 4 of us with our 280s, Bellows, Focorapids, Televits, rings.... ... what a meeting !!!

Now I try to be the most precise I can : when I wrote that screwing the 280v3 head on Bellows was not so soft, I meant simply that is surely a delicate action...a big heavy lens, a large thread with small pitch, a hard metal female thread on the bellows, operation to be made, typically, in vertical position to align well the two parts, with the weight of the lens in your hand, rotating it with care... surely not like screwing in an E39 filter... : BUT, when I do it with care, the movement is definitely smooth, in the sense that the two threads are surely the same... there is indeed, a small difference that is is the HEIGHT of the threads : checked with caliper, I'd say that the thread of the 280v3 head is 6(-)mm (equal to the 14138 female), of the Bellows 2 is 5(-)mm (equal to the 16596 male, for instance) ... in other words, the 280 head screws nicely in the bellows but not completely, in the sense that you "feel" the end of the female thread... you "could" turn some degrees more the lenshead, but there is no more thread to engage into.

Edited June 14, 2011 by luigi bertolotti

[Telyt2003]

Oh well... I cannot imagine a better scene than me, Karl Heinz and "Telyt2003", together in Provence (JC home, of course...), with a bottle of his excellent wine, all 4 of us with our 280s, Bellows, Focorapids, Televits, rings.... ... what a meeting !!!

...

 

Hi Luigi,

that would be really great!

Il y a trop longtemps que j'étais en Provence la dernier fois.

Bonne nuit / Good night,

Telyt2003

 

PS: Sorry for misunderstanding you!

[f3p5]

I got a very early V3 Telyt 280mm f4.8 lens.   SN 271387x.   Probably it is from the first batch of the V3.   The lens head won't screw directly on to my Bellow II front flange.   

 

I must use 16598 adapter (46mm x 0.75 thread) on my Bellow II after unscrewing off the small/lower sleeve from the lens head (a 46mm x 0.75 female tube).

 

Just to clear: (May be some error in some prior postings relating the size of the sleeve)

 

16558 has (33mmx0.75) female thead.

16598 has (46mmx0.75) female thead.

[luigi bertolotti]

 

 

I got a very early V3 Telyt 280mm f4.8 lens.   SN 271387x.   Probably it is from the first batch of the V3.   The lens head won't screw directly on to my Bellow II front flange.   

 

I must use 16598 adapter (46mm x 0.75 thread) on my Bellow II after unscrewing off the small/lower sleeve from the lens head (a 46mm x 0.75 female tube).

 

Just to clear: (May be some error in some prior postings relating the size of the sleeve)

 

16558 has (33mmx0.75) female thead.

16598 has (46mmx0.75) female thead.

 

AH!!  4 years passed... but I have never forgotten that long discussion on the mystery of the 280 V3 lenshead  .. and here's another case of a V3 head NOT fitting the bellows  (while, mine DOES... 4 years ago and still now...  ) ; ehm... of course I believe what you say... but it would be nice to see some detailed pictures of your item... possibly with the sleeve removed : re-reading this thread, I understand that something wasn't completely clarified...

[f3p5]

Here is my Telyt 280 4.8 lens.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[f3p5]

Telyt 280 4.8 lens head and focusing unit separated.

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[f3p5]

The 7.5mm sleeve (46mm inner diameter x0.75) unscrewed from my Telyt 280 4.8 lens head but still hanging at the end of lens head.

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