Young people and film

[Guest dk_samurai]

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I'm 25 and an engineering student. I've shot film with point-and-shoot's from when I was 18 till I turned 20, then I got me a Canon 20D in the summer of 2005. Shot that thing for 3 years and learned tons about exposure and light. I missed loading film into the camera, and having the rush of getting prints back from the lab to see the photos I took. I also wanted to shoot film while "it was still around".

 

So in the summer of 2008 I got a Canon 1V. Shot and loved that thing to death, but since I switched from Windows XP to mac, I couldn't access some of it's custom features so I sold off the 1V and most of my Canon gear.

 

January 2010, I jumped abroad the Leica rangefinder wagon. I got me an MP, later an M3 and had an M7 very briefly. Really really nice cameras, but I was (still am) hugely disappointed about how expensive that little extra bit of perfection costs, so I'm selling off all my Leica gear. Now currently have a Konica RF & AF plus a Hasselblad kit.

 

I've been very fortunate to meet a friend who has been my analog mentor. He's teached me looooads about developing film, printing in the darkroom and tips on scanning. I could have read everything he's taught me on the internet and in books, but it's always nice to have a person show you the works.

 

Anyways... what I'm trying to say is there is a HUGE interested amongst my generation to learn and use the analog photo medium. Only most of them don't know much about classical cameras, or where to develop film and what to do from there. I've helped point friends and people I've met at parties in the direction they need to go to get started. Lots of people really appreciate photography as a communication medium, and when it's done right in the analog form, they also appreciate it as an art form. This appreciation will still be here, long after Kodachrome, Agfa Scala, Polaroid Type 55 and the such have disappeared.

 

Film will never disappear. There will always be a new young generation to shoot the thing.

 

My 2 cents' worth anyway.

 

/David

 

 

PS.: Have I ever used the 20D since I got a proper film camera in 2008? No. I only use it when I have things to sell online or to document stuff for insurance purposes. I won't sell it for it's low resale value... I'll shoot it till it dies and then I'll use my phone to take pictures of stuff to sell online

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[sfage]

Some people have used the word bullshit.

 

Unless you have over 10 thousand dollars, digital "is" bullshit.

[luigi bertolotti]

Interesting thread... and I have my little experience about :

3 Daughters 17-15-13 : the oldest has a certain remembrance of film... after all, I switched M4 to M8 in 2007... so she remembers well when I had to deal with negs, to load the film in my camera, manage prints and enlargements for which "I went to a shop" etc... she is well aware that now film isn't more used, she has her own P&S (Panaleica... ), that's all.

The youngest two have a very vague-inconsistent feeling about the existence of "film"... and what happens ? The intermediate girl, that, too, has her own P&S, is asking me things about "how is with film ? can I try to use some of that old strange cameras you have ? Why there is one with two lenses in front?" (Rolleiflex, of course)

So I I have these opinions:

1) For VERY young people, film simply can be something NEW, the same way digital was new for my generation. New=interesting, appealing.

2) For more grown young people, with a solid passion on photography, film and the related workflow can represent a new experience and, above all, new ways to express their creativity : digital gives the top in terms of possibilites in image manipulation / processing, but a recent visit to a photo gallery in my town convinced me that, in the right hands, the chem process on various kind of print support can still give great artistic possibilities.

 

That's why I think that film, after all, will not die : the immense field of photography as "taking pictures" is definitely bond to digital... there is a whole word - workflows - communication medias etc... that has gone in this direction. But photography as a creative expression will continue to use a technology that has its OWN capabilities in terms of final result and how it is related to what their creator whishes to express : a sort of parallelism that comes to my mind is sculpture... one can model on "soft" materials and have a bronze as final output, one can choose to work onto rock with proper tools... it's anyway, generally speaking "a sculpture", but the final outputs have a lot of different capabilities in expressive terms.

[Stealth3kpl]

But Fuji had moved the stabilizer into an earlier stage of its processing. I had called Kodak and described the images and they told me this is what the lab must have done. The lab confirmed it to me.

 

So if it weren't for the fact that I had scanned many of these images, I would have lost a year's worth of work and many personal images including those from a trip to China and Tibet.

 

That's awful. I lost some great memories of hang gliding and paragliding around the Alps for a month. One of the flights was across to and up the North face of the Eiger. A wonderful experience. I backed the files up on discs. Sometime later my hard drive blew up so when I had it replaced I dug out the backup discs to load the files back on. For some reason they are corrupted. At least it is of some comfort to Alan that he knows why his images are gone. I have no idea why my discs are corrupted so it will be many years before I can trust completely digital and computers.

If anyone thinks they might be able to get the images off the discs I'd like to hear from you.

Pete

[Clearlight]

Last year, my M8 trashed a couple of hundred images - or, rather, the card failed. Every image was corrupted and unrecoverable.

The possibility of losing images is not just a film-thing.

[chrism]

Last year, my M8 trashed a couple of hundred images - or, rather, the card failed. Every image was corrupted and unrecoverable.

The possibility of losing images is not just a film-thing.

 

It's easy to lose 36 carefully crafted film images. Pour in Diafine B before Diafine A, or fixer before developer. But isn't that part of what makes it fun? The need to exercise skill, to have had practice and to have learnt from it - these are the things that make an activity gratifying. Each morning I shave with a straight razor. I have had to learn to hone and strop, and to use the razor itself, but the results are worth the effort and I enjoy being able to use the skills I have spent some years learning. Such things are why we choose to go on living, are they not? The results, be they fine photographs or a smooth and irritation-free cheek, are a bonus.

 

Chris

[roguewave]

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We have a very large & well stocked LOMO store on 8th Street in Greenwich Village. It's a real pleasure to walk into this environment. Tons of high school kids very enthusiastic about the cameras, photography & wanting to LEARN about film & it's challenges & rewards. With such a low cost entrance fee, it's one of the best ambassadors I know to image making with cameras. There's also a steady stream of NYU college students fondling & purchasing multiple cameras for projects. I don't know why it's important for people to ridicule & belittle aspirations & interests. I guess something dies inside them that leaves a bitterness.

[sm_spencer]

I'm a 26 year old engineer, and I can definitely attest to MY love of film. I have never owned a dSLR, but have played around with some from time to time. None of the ones I fiddled with interested me in the slightest.

 

However, film interested me from the very beginning. I loved the permanence of it, the inability to easily erase and try again. It seemed to command a discipline lacking in a lot of casual photography with digital cameras. I bought a used Nikon F, a used M3, and finally have settled on an M6 Classic that literally goes everywhere with me. Couldn't be happier with film, and have no intention of abandoning it!

 

And to add to the chorus, I too see a lot of people about 10 years younger than I am wandering around with Holgas and Dianas. Gateway drugs!

[AlanG]

The need to exercise skill, to have had practice and to have learnt from it - these are the things that make an activity gratifying.

 

A lot of my photography early education was learning by my mistakes. I shot a huge amount of film for more than 30 years before I even saw a digital camera. As a pro I had to cover my ass by over shooting with multiple cameras and holding film back from the lab. (Of course if they don't stabilize it, there is little you can do.) I never thought there was much of a learning benefit in losing images and having to re-shoot. I took every imaginable precaution to make sure I couldn't mess up an assignment. Because if something can go wrong, it will. I started developing my film at age 11 and never ruined a single roll.

 

When my home was hit by lightning... resulting in a fire, I was fortunate that I was at home and called the fire department immediately. They arrived quickly, and not many images were lost. My digital scans were all duplicated and stored at my other home and as soon as the fire started, I was also able to grab all my digital files and take them with me as I left the house. If this had happened at night while I wasn't there, my house along with all of my original film may have been lost. (The alarm system that should have notified the fire department was knocked out by the power surge.) As it was, the water damage and mold was so bad that I ended up gutting and rebuilding the house costing about $160K.

 

Young people, artists, enthusiasts and some pros will certainly find a role for film. But in most commercial, news, photojournalism, scientific, engineering, analysis, documentation, reproduction, communication, biomedical, and forensic photography applications, the negatives of film (no pun) will outweigh the positives and that is the driving force behind digital photography taking over from film in so many fields. A look, effect, style or personal preference for film for whatever reason is only one part of the field of photography. Granted this is a very important one to those on this forum.

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[Mystic]

Right now Im 22 years old.

I startet to take a look at the film cameras with 17. I was interestet and asked myself "why do people still buy that stuff" I wantet an answer to that question, so I used every information I could get.

After a while I thought it would be a good idea to see what it feels like to take photo with film, especially black and white and slide films were interesting, so I bought a Leica R4 + Summicron 50mm and I really loved (I was still 17).

Today I got a Leica R8, I bought it early last year and it was a wonderful decision. I still own the Summicron 50mm somehow its enough for me,.... sometimes I think that I dont need another lens but lets see

 

Best regards

[Clearlight]

Alan, the point of this thread is that, as long as younger photographers are interested in film photography, then film has a healthy future. We have threads like this as encouraging little gems when the digital enthusiasts illogically denigrate the future of film.

 

Of course we know that film use is much reduced from its former peak. Of course we know that digital photography is more used, more popular. But, of course we also know that film use is steady, healthy, and life-enhancing.

[Mystic]

You are absolutely right.

 

When I take a look at my photogear I got WAY more digital cameras than analogue but it still is that interesting to that I dont want to live without it again.

 

Every system got its advantages and disadvantages.

[Clearlight]

Possibly ironic, but I combine film and digital as well

 

The M8 is excellent for city shots at night. The Nikon D700 is better, but too bloody big

[AlanG]

Alan, the point of this thread is that, as long as younger photographers are interested in film photography, then film has a healthy future. We have threads like this as encouraging little gems when the digital enthusiasts illogically denigrate the future of film.

 

Of course we know that film use is much reduced from its former peak. Of course we know that digital photography is more used, more popular. But, of course we also know that film use is steady, healthy, and life-enhancing.

 

I agree with your overall point but not with the conclusion that it is steady and healthy. (Sorry for being contrary and all that again.) But the future of film is depending on a very narrow field and I do not think that is the prescription for long term health for an entire industry. (Many aspects of this industry are already gone.) I doubt if many Holga and Lomo users will upgrade to a new M7 any time soon as Lomography is almost anti-Leica the way I see it.

 

Of course, anything one enjoys can be life enhancing. But what exactly are they going to do with film photography overall that is so special other than to enjoy the process and find that aspect of photography challenging? (Which is also the point that some people make over and over again. And the point that I always agree with and think is film photography's only small niche future.)

 

Even if you shoot film, you'd be wise to back it up some how - multiple original frames, film or digital copies, prints, etc. Otherwise you put your entire life's photographic work at risk of a single incident that is beyond your control.

 

Yes shooting film, processing it and printing it can be enjoyable. I enjoy that too. Did you see how much film was stacked on my lightbox? So do you think that will be enough for a healthy future despite the fact that it is no longer a necessity in many fields that prefer digital capture? People enjoy digital photography also. Unfortunately, the downward trend has been faster steeper and quicker than most anyone expected. I'm not reporting this with some kind of glee.

[Clearlight]

No, the point is that film use is increasing. OK, it may be a blip, but what if it is not?

 

Film stockist in the UK are selling more than they anticipated, and outlets that previously eschewed film now have several types on their shelves.

 

I use film because it feels good. It is more of a craft to me. I use digital and am appreciative of its qualities, but, when I use film there is more of 'me' in the process.

 

I my film image archive were to perish, I would be upset but stoic - as long as my film cameras were safe.

 

(Besides, I have scanned all the good ones and have them stored on HDs and DVDs)

[AlanG]

No, the point is that film use is increasing. OK, it may be a blip, but what if it is not?

 

 

Great if it is increasing. I just haven't seen the evidence other than in niche fields. The Lomo thing and alternative processes are very interesting (even to pros) but once they grow out of a small niche, they are not "special" anymore. The same thing happened with Lensbabies and now they are making sort of "serious" lenses too. I'd expect to see digital Lomos. No matter what, it won't sell Leica film cameras.

 

I don't know where the push for film photography will come from. I've spoken at several camera clubs in the past year and their membership has really aged. And many of these old timers are shooting and printing digitally today. They don't project slides anymore either.

 

For a young person, trying to simply find a darkroom to learn basic developing and printing, along with someone to guide them, will be a challenge.

[Clearlight]

We don't need a film resurgence to sell Leica cameras. As long as someone (Cosina?) can service the demand.

 

I don't think photography club demographics has much bearing. They may easily reflect a general move away from gathering together, dressed similarly, to proselytise. The younger are more likely to use the Interweb.

[Clearlight]

Recent developments.

 

And more

 

And still more.

 

Oh, and this.

 

Even Leica are joining in

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Hallo,

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[AlanG]

Large format photography (and some MF film photography) are some of the few niches that are relatively impervious to substitution by digital capture at this point. However, LF,even 8x10, photography was quite mainstream in the commercial world as recently as 10 years ago. Now some commercial shooters still use it of course, but it is moving to nature, landscape and enthusiast shooters.

 

The reason I stress the importance of film users to develop and print their images is that once you accept scanned film images for the web and prints, some of the incentive to use film in the first place is gone.

 

A camera club or some similar environment is where people shared hands on film and darkroom experiences with others. It is hard to duplicate how to instruct someone in making a great b/w print by talking about it over the web. I don't know if the Lomography stores do this but I bet most of the Lomo photos get scanned and shared over the web rather than exchanged as hand made prints that you can take pride in as I did.

[Clearlight]

A camera club or some similar environment is where people shared hands on film and darkroom experiences with others. It is hard to duplicate how to instruct someone in making a great b/w print by talking about it over the web. I don't know if the Lomography stores do this.

 

This misses the point of the thread. Younger people are less likely to join such gatherings (and have been since the '60s). The fact that their membership is dwindling has little to nothing to do with the future of film or the fact that younger photographers are showing a healthy interest in the medium.