Will there be a Digilux 4?

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As the title said, is there any rumours on the Digilux 4? since the new versions of D-lux and V-lux have been out, will there be a new Digilux in the next Photokina?

[Overgaard]

No signs anywhere that it is planned, being worked on, or will happen.

 

What is known is that Leica works on a fullframe "mirrorless" (or perhaps rather "shutterless") camera for M lenses that will also take R lenses, eventual with a digital viewfinder (as they talk really sweet about how good the new generations of those have become).

 

All in all this sounds like a mini-M, and perhaps with some sort of AF (new lens series, or AF by moving the sensor; most likely Leica won't want to introduce more bayonets or camera systems as they already have S and M lenses and said good bye to R. At least from a development point of view, each lens mount is a new added r&d cost and a new production line and new warehouse).

 

None of this is a Digilux 4 in the understanding of an updated Digilux 2.

 

So that was the long answer. The short one is "no".

[Wiggi]

A X1 with interchangable lenses would make sense. Instead of the built-in flash there could be an electronic viewfinder.

 

All parts allready are existing, inclusive the calculation for the lenses (Summilux-C). This would not cost much money. But I suppose the full frame EVIL will be a high risk for Leica. FF Photographers want to look through an optical viewfinder, like I do. What will be, when the Photographers would refuse to buy this model, developed with high costs?

 

With the EVIL basing upon the X1, Leica could test the market with low costs. But I do not think, that its name would be "Digilux".

[Digitom]

I think the Digilux line is finally "closed". What should a Digilux 4 be? A better Digilux 2 compact camera, or a dslr-model like the Digilux 3? I think we can answer the question:

 

Leica went into other directions. The X1 is a step into the direction to establish a line of cameras above the compact cameras (PanaLeica) and below the M. The "budget" C-Line was stopped, maybe Leica thought there were too many compromizes in picture quality below the D-Lux, which is now in the 5th generation.

 

The D-Lux line is also in the portfolio of Panasonic (were they appear as LX) something special, compared to other Panasonics, so one can see IMHO the "handwriting" of Leica, similar to the Digilux 2.

 

So I think in some cases the D-Lux 5 is now a substitute for the Digilux 2: Electronic viewfinder, very good picture quality, even sure better noise at higher ISO then the Digilux 2, and a lens with F2.0 and zoom up to 90mm (so very similar then the Digilux2). And another big advantage: very compact! But: no aperture and sharpness ring at the lenses - from my view a big disadvantage, but maybe not possible in such a small case.

 

Well, there is no Digilux 4 in sight, and will be never, and also there is no camera on the market which gives the look and feel like a Digilux 2 does, but sure there is (and in future may be more) cameras which will come near to a Digilux 2 - meaning the handling and haptik.

[rsolomon]

No signs anywhere that it is planned, being worked on, or will happen.

 

What is known is that Leica works on a fullframe "mirrorless" (or perhaps rather "shutterless") camera for M lenses that will also take R lenses, eventual with a digital viewfinder (as they talk really sweet about how good the new generations of those have become).

 

All in all this sounds like a mini-M, and perhaps with some sort of AF (new lens series, or AF by moving the sensor; most likely Leica won't want to introduce more bayonets or camera systems as they already have S and M lenses and said good bye to R. At least from a development point of view, each lens mount is a new added r&d cost and a new production line and new warehouse).

 

None of this is a Digilux 4 in the understanding of an updated Digilux 2.

 

So that was the long answer. The short one is "no".

 

 

This sounds like an excoting camera ! - i have been away for a while but have not heard this information - is there anywhere to read up on this -- knowing leica probably not but thought i;d ask

[wahnamhong]

 

So I think in some cases the D-Lux 5 is now a substitute for the Digilux 2: Electronic viewfinder, very good picture quality, even sure better noise at higher ISO then the Digilux 2, and a lens with F2.0 and zoom up to 90mm (so very similar then the Digilux2).

 

 

This is an interesting comparison, also as they are more or less the same price (digilux second hand of course).

 

But... Is the IQ of the D-Lux 5 comparable to the Digilux 2?

[John Thawley]

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So I think in some cases the D-Lux 5 is now a substitute for the Digilux 2: Electronic viewfinder, very good picture quality, even sure better noise at higher ISO then the Digilux 2, and a lens with F2.0 and zoom up to 90mm (so very similar then the Digilux2). And another big advantage: very compact! But: no aperture and sharpness ring at the lenses - from my view a big disadvantage, but maybe not possible in such a small case.

 

I think that misses the point completely. There are many cameras that compete and compare with the D-Lux series if you're going to cite the criteria you have.

 

Where no camera compares with the Digilux 2 (excluding the M8/M9) is the analog controls. Once you shift from the analogue format into modal design, it's just another face int he crowd. The choices for high-end point n' shoots are numerous. Sure, there are arguable differences among them... but you have choices.

 

Of course, image quality, lens quality (sorry, comparing the D-Lux lens to the Digilux 2 is almost laughable) are certainly important. But in the case of the Digilux 2, the creative connection between the user and the camera is unrivaled.

 

If (and I know it's a big if)... the Fuji X100 stays true to their claims we may see a true challenger. And if that's the case, red dot be damned, I'll own one.

 

The true design challenge is making the tool seamless in the creative equation. Unfortunately, that mission has been pushed aside for 720HD, Face Recognition and seeing who can come up with the most convoluted combination of menu driven computer commands.

 

IMO.

 

JT

[krabat]

If (and I know it's a big if)... the Fuji X100 stays true to their claims we may see a true challenger. And if that's the case, red dot be damned, I'll own one.

Well, with a manually operable zoom lens... it would be interesting...

[John Thawley]

Well, with a manually operable zoom lens... it would be interesting...

 

Actually, a fixed prime 35mm appeals to me. But in practice, I may turn out to be a total wimp. LOL

[Digitom]

I think that misses the point completely. There are many cameras that compete and compare with the D-Lux series if you're going to cite the criteria you have.

 

Where no camera compares with the Digilux 2 (excluding the M8/M9) is the analog controls. Once you shift from the analogue format into modal design, it's just another face int he crowd. The choices for high-end point n' shoots are numerous. Sure, there are arguable differences among them... but you have choices.

 

Of course, image quality, lens quality (sorry, comparing the D-Lux lens to the Digilux 2 is almost laughable) are certainly important. But in the case of the Digilux 2, the creative connection between the user and the camera is unrivaled.

 

If (and I know it's a big if)... the Fuji X100 stays true to their claims we may see a true challenger. And if that's the case, red dot be damned, I'll own one.

 

The true design challenge is making the tool seamless in the creative equation. Unfortunately, that mission has been pushed aside for 720HD, Face Recognition and seeing who can come up with the most convoluted combination of menu driven computer commands.

 

IMO.

 

JT

 

 

The Digilux 2 is of course unique. And because there is no other camera on the market which is similar in handling until now (but you cannot really compare seriously an M9 with a Digilux 2!!)

 

So people who do not want to buy a year old camera like the D2 used, they look for substitutes. And the D-Lux 5 is in some cases a very interesting LEICA alternative (I did not talk about other brands), not in handling, but in the features I mentioned. AND John: I think (you may laugh about or not - laughing is healthy, so feel free to do it ) the picture quality of the D-Lux 5 seems to be very very good, and I think there is not such a big difference these days then in the years before when comparing D-Lux 2 with D2. THAT was bigger difference - but I have to say also not so tremendously high (on low ISO)!

 

I love the D2, but I think one should be realistic and accept that there might be cameras cheaper then the D2 was when being new nowadays, which are giving Image Qualities of - let me say 90 Percent of the D2. We agree in one thing: the haptik and handling of the Digilux 2 is amazing "analog" and is very modern until now.

 

So let us wait for D-Lux 6 and discuss again...

[daveleo]

i gave up waiting for the next best D2 (it's almost 5 years now ?) , and went over to the dark side and bought other stuff . . . . . life's too short to wait for what's never going to happen.

[regedit]

the new D4 will be most likely the new X2 (the development dosen't even start from what I know). My bet is that Leica will keep ASPC sensor size and will work on a more versatile (but still compact) lens, and why not, like in m4/3 interchangeable with some very compact (pancake) primes and some larger zooms. They need to create an alternative system camera other than M (which should stay rangefinder forever), with big sensor, compact size, AF, digital VF and so on. That is the logical market path.

 

will see.

[Digitom]

I think all the discussion shows that many customers of Leica would like a camera which is in handling similar to the D2 (classic analog feeling) and a modern sensor with better (higher) ISO capabilities. And changeable lenses. And a high resolution electronic viewfinder. And it is high time for Leica to develop a CSC (Compact System Camera) which many people call until now "EVIL". Samsung has presented such a system, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus (I wonder why Canon not, until now - is it maybe a bit ignorance? So they do the similar mistake Leica did in the past, e.g. look at SLR and Autofocus).

 

It seems one more time Leica is may be too slowly. Maybe that comes from the fact, that they want to adapt R and/or M-lenses with that system. Maybe that is really difficult to do in a high quality solution, and maybe they have not enough "human capabilities" (stuff, means manpower) to do. Because Leica is in fact a small company, a camera factory.

 

So IMHO it would be better for Leica to say "R-times have gone forever, forget it", and then they should offer a complete new system which is state-of-the art and on the top of the 21 century. But still they set focus on S2 and M9, even on MP! Well, that is ok if these models bring much money to the factory. But that hype will not last forever.

Because M ans S2 systems only offer solutions for a small minority of possible customers. These customers can pay any price maybe, but will Leica only set focus on these? Sure Leica will neve da mass market cameras, that is ok, but there is much potential when you look at a price between M9 and X1!

 

Frankly say (please do not damn me for that...), a viewfinder is in modern time of photography really a very old fashioned thing. Sure it has the right of existence, because M is a camera which shows a complete way of photography. And we see, one has to pay an extraordinary price for that nostalgy.

But Leica should also look into future. They do with S2, but only they look on the pro market and the very few people who can afford this S2.

 

But why do they not see the S2 as a flagship and use their experience from that camera for developing a Leica CSC which is a realy solution for customers who like Leica but are not familiar with M9 due to several reasons? I think Fujii has a really good idea presented at Photokina. It is a thing I expected Leica should do!! And I also think "Yes, they can!" But why don´t they do?

[lct]

Digiluxes have nothing to do with S, M or X cameras IMHO.

Those are PanaLeica clones to Panasonic models with Leica firmware, cosmetics and price:

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC5 (Leica Digilux 1)

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1 (Leica Digilux 2)

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 (Leica Digilux 3)

The Digilux 4 will probably be the PanaLeica clone of the DMC-L1's successor if any.

This camera perhaps?

CAMERA BODY AND IMAGING DEVICE

[Digitom]

Digiluxes have nothing to do with S, M or X cameras IMHO.

Those are PanaLeica clones to Panasonic models with Leica firmware, cosmetics and price:

...

 

Well, "clone" is in my view some negative word. I think it is not useful to talk about "real Leica" and "non real Leica" IMHO.

 

I say this a little bit provocative: Is the M9, which is basically made in Portugal, with many parts e.g. the sensor from 3rd companies a real Leica? It is finished and calibrated in Solms of course, the blueprints are made in Germany, but how can one say that this camera is a "rela Leica" or not? Well, we all know and noone deoubts about that SURE it is a real Leica! But also a Digilux 2 was a real Leica, because if a camera wears the LEICA red-dot and the brand, it stands for the ideas of that company: best picture quality and service for the paid price (that does not mean that you cannot get same or similar quality from other brands also!).

 

When you look at the normal portfolio of Panasonic you may see, that the DIgilux 2 was special. The featres of that camera were really not fitting into the normal standard Panasonic camera models. One can see the handwriting of Leica that time. So I say - using your words - that the Digilux 2 was a "real" Leica and Panasonic did the clone! Only to reduce the cost it was manufactured in Japan. Until today, the lens is very good, and the pics have good quality. Never seen a better pics from a compact camera - until the X1 comes, but it is a very different camera.

 

Nowadays there are many companies who go back -beside the mass market- to the "real photography" and going to make "retro designs" which are really attracting customers, because they do not use big feature lists - a camera impresses not with features, it impreses most when you look at the pictures finally.

 

Leica never left that way. Others come back to that way now! So one can see also that Panasonic went to the "Leica way" when bringing out the LX5 model, which is also today some kind of unique, compared to the other Point and shoot compact cameras of Panasonic. I do not think that Leica is only looking at the Panasonic portfolio and picking up this or that and put it in a black mantle and colling a red dot on the front. If one believe that it is silly.

 

I like the "working together" of Leica and Panasonic - why not? Samsung and Schneider-Kreuznach do it, SONY and Zeiss do it. We live in modern times and it is ok when companies work together to mak better products. Because we -the customers- have a benefit. And also Panasonic has a benefit from the Leica lenses and Leica from the electronics of Panasonic.

[lct]

Reminds me of discussions we've had on the 'old' Leica forum about the Digilux 1 in 2003 or 2004. A camera that i like much to the point that i bought 2 copies of it and i still use it with pleasure 6 years later. Now facts are facts. Each Digilux has always been a clone or, if you prefer, a twin sister of the corresponding Panasonic model. With her own character, a somewhat different IQ, but a sister camera. I just wanted to say that what occurred about the Digilux 1, 2 and 3 has some chance to occur with the Digilux 4 again.

[John Thawley]

Digiluxes have nothing to do with S, M or X cameras IMHO.

Those are PanaLeica clones to Panasonic models with Leica firmware, cosmetics and price:

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC5 (Leica Digilux 1)

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1 (Leica Digilux 2)

- Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 (Leica Digilux 3)

The Digilux 4 will probably be the PanaLeica clone of the DMC-L1's successor if any.

This camera perhaps?

CAMERA BODY AND IMAGING DEVICE

 

I think that it might be convenient for you to just throw that all out there. And, AFTER the Digilux 2, I'd probably agree with you.

 

In a worse case scenario the Digilux 2 was a merger of minds between Panasonic and Leica. However, it would be very hard to NOT "see" (and I do mean visually) Leica's DNA all over the model. Not only in aesthetics... but even in functionality and image quality. It has also been reported that the first run of lenses, being designed by Leica and produced by Panasonic under Leica supervision, were rejected by Leica. So I think there's evidence of Leica DNA in the Digilux 2. To my mind, it's pretty obvious Leica was the dog wagging the tail at the point in their marriage.

 

Obviously, Panasonic must have made a case to Leica that while it is a beautiful camera, the number$ and return on investment didn't meet their expectations. Not being able to give up the potential revenue stream the marriage produces, Leica acquiesced.

 

I don't think there will ever be a replacement or continuation of the Digilux 2. If there is, it will be a result of a wake up call delivered by Fuji (assuming they live up to the X100 promise). And, I predict if that does happen, it will be Panasonic making the noise to get on that bandwagon. Leica will be faced with the prospect of kissing their sister since such a camera would compete with the X1.

 

So, in short, if we're ever to see an analogue camera from Leica that happens to report to a sensor instead of film, it will probably come in the form of a re-thought X1. Although I don't think it requires much thinking.

 

Leica has the PERFECT camera in the M9. IF you have the discretionary income to drop $10K on a system. I have always felt that if Leica could produce a boutique rangefinder under $3K (merely inflation of the Digilux 2's original price) they would have a cash cow.

 

The fact remains, Pana-Leica or no Pana-Leica, the jump from $800 to $2000 to $10,000 to $30,000 leaves a gaping hole in Leica's line-up.

 

Regardless, the Digilux 2 is still a Cinderella in Leica's digital history. And as much as I like the Panasonic version, it's still Cinderella wearing a wig... just doesn't evoke the same emotion.

 

Just another opinion.

[John Thawley]

The Digilux 2 is of course unique. And because there is no other camera on the market which is similar in handling until now (but you cannot really compare seriously an M9 with a Digilux 2!!)

 

Of course you can. You can compare lots of things.

 

You can compare the price, the build quality, the image quality, the styling... there are lots of ways to compare.

 

You can also compare the hands that are holding either and the eye/mind that is doing the shooting.

 

This all comes back to putting too much emphasis on technology.

 

Where the M and the Digilux 2 both shine (and are comparable) is their unique ability to make us FORGET the technology and THINK more about the picture and picture making.

 

And really, isn't that the point?

 

Look, the M has build quality, versatility, beautiful (and timeless) looks and ergonomics and superb image quality - though directly linked to the lens you choose.

 

The Digilux 2 as nice (respectable) build quality (certainly not the humph of the M), it's versatility only hindered by techno-time but enhanced by the zoom, beautiful (and timeless) looks and ergonomics and superb image quality INCLUDING the attached lens.

 

And ultimately, in the hands of a capable photographer, BOTH will produce arguably competitive quality 16x24 prints on a wall.

 

So, when you consider a used $1000 6 year-old camera vs. a new $10K camera (with lens)... I think the comparison is fair game.

 

And for the record and so as to put to rest that I'm just a Digilux 2 fan-boy, I'd buy a M9 and f/2 35mm in a heart beat, were it not for the fact I have to keep feeding my Canon toolbox for work.

[lct]

...I think there's evidence of Leica DNA in the Digilux 2...

It is common knowledge. Same for the Digilux 1 that i prefer to the D2 personally.

But this does not alter the fact that D2 as well as D1 and D3 were clones or twin sisters to the corresponding Panasonic model.

So to the OP's question "will there be a Digilux 4?" my answer is probably yes if there comes a successor to the Pana DMC-L1.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Wiggi]

So to the OP's question "will there be a Digilux 4?" my answer is probably yes if there comes a successor to the Pana DMC-L1.

 

The Lumix DMC-L1 is still manufactured and offered by Panasonic.You can buy the sister of the Digilux 3 as new camera.