Leica/LUF @ P'kina in English

[jplomley]

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....we are forever going to messing about with viewfinders and magnifiers and worrying about focussing accuracy which is why increasingly I take my Nikons with me and leave my Leicas at home.

 

Agree, except I don't own a dSLR, but am now seriously considering adding one to offset the shortcomings of the M system.

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[Guest BigSplash]

Frank as I already explained when you first said this, it DOES have the same flash sytem as serial M9's. There is a blank fitted in the shoe for cosmetic reasons.

 

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But why on earth will it matter? It seems very unlikely that any of those special editions will ever be used.

As for your maybe for an M10 on 10/10/10, I think that you may be very disappointed very soon

Geoff ...I am now aware of the fact that the M9 Tit has flash and a cosmetic cover which goes somewhere (???!!) if you actually take pictures.

 

As for 10-10-10 ..I regret to say that you are probably correct and that is my real concern as there is so much Leica still could do with the M9 to improve it. Bottom line its a missed opportunity but who cares my M8 works just great!

[Guest BigSplash]

Geoff, I think Franky is just setting the stage for his "missed opportunity" thread on October 10.

 

Great idea and thanks as I had really not thought about that one. Clearly as a journalist you can spot a story and this is a good one......see you 10-10-10 !!

[Guest BigSplash]

If it is the case that Leica have shipped 1000 units of S2 in just six months and the total market size is 6000 units then this is fantastic. Furthermore they have done that by selling to amateurs mostly rather than displacing the entrenched competitors such as Hasselblad....could it be that:

1. They have invented a new market segment (high end, price insensitive, amateurs) like Range Rover, ipod, iphone have done? Great!
   
2. They have managed to build a new production line and parts suppliers for S2 that has not had the production ramp up issues that M9 has seen?
   
3. Leica is strategically moving to a new company model that is linked to really high end kit. Think:
   
   • Cinema lens business that is within Dr Kaufmann's portfolio
     
   • Think new CEO with background from Arri and opto electronics industries
     
   • S2 and support org. for this product.
     

[UliWer]

Thanks for this sensible hypothesis!

[bill]

Thanks for this sensible hypothesis!

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Bo_Lorentzen]

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Frank that actually made sense even to me.

 

Though, this thread started as the translation of the meeting at PhotoKino and deterioated into what maybe can be called "armchair ceo second guessing" ?

 

Im pretty sure nothing I can say here will affect what Leica does in the next decade, and since I love my M, I can't get into the predictions of the end of the world. (quite yet)

 

I don't know if Leica will be around to make a M10 or a S4, and I don't care, as long as my current cameras are working and doing what I expect them to be doing.

 

My only real concern is, was anything announced which might cost me money in 2011. I did not see anything terrible exciting as a M user, and I am in a holding pattern on the S - sooo...

 

.

[mjh]

If it is the case that Leica have shipped 1000 units of S2 in just six months and the total market size is 6000 units then this is fantastic. Furthermore they have done that by selling to amateurs mostly rather than displacing the entrenched competitors such as Hasselblad....could it be that:

1. They have invented a new market segment (high end, price insensitive, amateurs) like Range Rover, ipod, iphone have done? Great!

It is hardly a new market and neither are Leica alone in catering for it. Hasselblad doesn’t show amateurs the door either. In fact they have just introduced a limited edition Ferrari H4D aimed squarely at “consumers” (Hasselblad’s term). Of course the Ferrari edition is considerably more expensive than the regular one – the one that’s supposedly marketed to pros.

[rosuna]

I don't know the exact proportions but Hasselblad has a traditional user base of professionals, mostly studio photographers (products, fashion, etc.), and in the film era you even had wedding photographers using Hasselblads V... But all that may be changing now...

 

Leica could have an advantage in the rich amateur "market" over Hasselblad, but they haven't a professional user base yet. Maybe this is not even necessary, after all.

[mjh]

I don't know the exact proportions but Hasselblad has a traditional user base of professionals, mostly studio photographers (products, fashion, etc.), and in the film era you even had wedding photographers using Hasselblads V... But all that may be changing now...

Did you by any chance attend the Hasselblad press conference in Cologne? There was this touching story related by Hasselblad’s CEO about a rich and (unfortunately) deceased Hasselblad afficionado whose ashes were buried within his (V system) Hasselblad – Hasselblad does care about its amateur customers.

[rosuna]

Did you by any chance attend the Hasselblad press conference in Cologne? There was this touching story related by Hasselblad’s CEO about a rich and (unfortunately) deceased Hasselblad afficionado whose ashes were buried within his (V system) Hasselblad – Hasselblad does care about its amateur customers.

 

I see.

 

I wish my ashes to be buried within my M8 camera and then someone send it to Solms for a sensor cleaning service.

[marknorton]

As far as using M lenses on a GF-1 type camera is concerned, I personally haven't found it to be a very pleasant experience, but that's probably just me.

 

I agree the GF-1 EVF is disappointing, but you can think of a camera GF-1 size with a FF CMOS sensor which can be had in two models - one for M and one for R lenses (I slightly rule out one for both because of the microlens requirements for the M).

 

Live view, focus confirmation, and then some other type of viewfinder such as the Fuji or Panasonic's best EVF. They have come a long way; the G1 may not be great but it's miles better than the feeble Digilux 2 effort.

[marknorton]

s

I went shopping for a new compact camera a couple of days ago and expected to come home with a GF-1

 

Trouble is, an mFT camera is not really compact, even with the pancake lens. As you suggested, the Nikon P7000 fits the bill and is much less expensive than a D-Lux 5 - I've just bought one.

[giordano]

Hasselblad does care about its amateur customers.

 

Wasn't Viktor Hasselblad himself, like Oskar Barnack, an amateur photographer?

 

More to the point, both Leicas and Hasselblads started out more as tools for the serious (and well heeled) amateur than for the pro.

[stunsworth]

I agree the GF-1 EVF is disappointing, but you can think of a camera GF-1 size with a FF CMOS sensor which can be had in two models - one for M and one for R lenses (I slightly rule out one for both because of the microlens requirements for the M).

 

Disappointed, but better than using the screen no the back - maybe it's an age thing, but I like to use a viewfinder.

 

I do wonder though how well balanced a camera of that size would be with R lenses. Even the shorter lenses are large compared to their M equivalents - never mind the longer ones.

[pop]

I do wonder though how well balanced a camera of that size would be with R lenses. Even the shorter lenses are large compared to their M equivalents - never mind the longer ones.

 

Perhaps they will start selling hand grips, similar to handguns?

[Guest BigSplash]

Frank that actually made sense even to me.

 

Though, this thread started as the translation of the meeting at PhotoKino and deterioated into what maybe can be called "armchair ceo second guessing" ?

 

Im pretty sure nothing I can say here will affect what Leica does in the next decade, and since I love my M, I can't get into the predictions of the end of the world. (quite yet)

 

I don't know if Leica will be around to make a M10 or a S4, and I don't care, as long as my current cameras are working and doing what I expect them to be doing.

 

My only real concern is, was anything announced which might cost me money in 2011. I did not see anything terrible exciting as a M user, and I am in a holding pattern on the S - sooo...

 

.

 

Bo thanks for your comment. I agree that this thread is about Photokina and excuse me if I have helped push it off course. The point is surely that at Photkina there was NO serious announcement ..a 500 unit M9 Tit, a DLUX 5 and a VLUX2.

 

The Q&A session that followed was also in my view lack lustre. DMR battery cells that Leica will try to cobble together somehow within existing shells. No solution for R lenses. I tried hard to find the good news for M8 / M9 users and those that wish to see a strong profitable company capitalising on its M9 success to bring out products that excite and reinforce the brand going forward.

 

I think there was a missed opportunity to widen the scope of the M9 to make it a more useful system offering as I have said in previous threads..it did not happen this time. Many people have complained here about QC, reliability, ruggedness etc ....this was not addressed at the Q&A in any meaningful way. There is in fact a long list of positive things that in my opinion Leica could have said and explained that they are hopefully actioning but they chose not to. I find that surprising and actually concerning.

[andybarton]

Bale out of Leica now, Frank, before it's too late.

 

When the company inevitably goes out of business, no one will want the stuff any more.

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[stunsworth]

Bo thanks for your comment. I agree that this thread is about Photokina and excuse me if I have helped push it off course. The point is surely that at Photkina there was NO serious announcement ..a 500 unit M9 Tit, a DLUX 5 and a VLUX2

 

That's because all their announcements were made before Photokina.

 

In the last 12 months they've announced/released the M9, S2 (plus lenses) X1 and a new 35mm Summilux for the M system. Personally I think that's remarkable for a company of Leica's size. If Photokina had been last year instead of this we'd all (or more likely most of us would) be saying what a fantastic year Leica had had.

 

Unlike a chip manufacturer banging out chips by the million Leica are a small company with limited resources - both financial and human - and _I_ happen to think they're doing very well at the moment.

[rosuna]

I agree with Steve. Leica's product renovation in the last 5 years has been impressive, considering lenses, cameras, accesories, etc. The real problem was to set a product plan for the long term. This Photokina we got the final details. Now they have problems to deal with (manufacturing, logistics, research and development... but they already have announced incremental improvements), but it seems they have a stable base for working on all this without anxiety or hurry. The dangerous years have been left behind...