Disappointed with Leica M9 QC

[john_j]

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Aerogift-

 

I am sorry to hear of the problems your have had with your M 9 purchase(s). Sometimes the big advertising, big guns are nothing but big jive. Your experiences are unacceptable, shame on those dealers!

 

For the past 20 + years since I became a Leica user, I have purchased from Bergen County Camera New Jersey (Bergen County Camera). It is a "neighborhood" shop that was founded by two brothers (one of which is always there) and has a surprising large staff that is dedicated and passionate about what they do.

 

I have had zero problems with my current six Leicas and a bundle of lenses or the ones I traded over the years. I recently traded my M8 for an M9 and cannot be happier. BTW, I never had a problem with this "back focus" stuff I read about either and my serial number is higher than then ones you received. Makes one wonder... They also carry great clean used stuff too!

 

It is my local place that I mostly visit but occasionally do phone orders. Oh yeah, I live in New York and travel to Jersey for my Leicas. Need I say more?

 

Best,

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[menos I M6]

I don't want to be very means but I'm now so sad.

The package inside looks very nasty like I got it from a trash !!!

 

At this moment, I don't want to complain the dealer since I found three copies I got were similar. Low quality Poor manufacturing and production.

 

Another thing the serial number of M9 I got gave me a bit surprised by 03970010 (from Dale) and 03970011 (from OpticsPlanet). Unbelievable batch.

 

Should I stop buying M9 or just accept what it is?

 

How about the other friends here have the experience like? May I have your advice?

 

You should take the camera back to the dealer, it comes from.

Before doing so, I would document the state, the camera and package arrived for possible later argumentation, if an exchange camera should be inquired, to arrive very late or sales persons should be unhelpful in your matter.

 

You should not quit buying Leica products over this.

This is not the standard of quality, I have experienced from buying Leica products. It seems, you got a very big portion of bad luck in having had delivered these items to you.

 

One last comment: dust on the sensor is a very common and natural issue with all digital cameras with exchangeable lenses. Even though the camera you pay for should be a new item in unopened packaging, I would not be surprised or even negatively moved by receiving a camera with a certain amount of dust on the sensor, but would directly proceed with a cleaning and use the camera until the next cleaning is necessary.

 

Good luck - if you stay firm and finally receive YOUR camera, you will not regret it, it is a mighty fine product.

[stuny]

My experience with Bergen Gounty Camera exactly matches John's. Additionally, either brother remembers us by name, even months later, and even when we made only our second visit to their shop some years ago. In all that time I've never had a Leica product delivered with any problem and wonder what the real story is regarding your two units, though it seemed immediately clear that the first unit had been opened by a prior customer.

 

I do take issue with your posting a message with a title that essentially says quality is not there. A fairer title would have been something like "Does this indicate M9 QC problems?" There are more than enough people visiting this Forum who denigrate Leica without even trying the model they complain about (armchair philosopher syndrome). This is much like quite a number of members who posted how horrible the iPad was weeks before even seeing one.

 

BTW: In the future please post images directly here and not links. Many members will not click through, and in the case of your site it has the type of address blocked by many businesses. Fortunately I could check your last image link via smart phone.

[delander †]

Actually Stuart I think the title is quite fair. The OP is disappointed with Leica quality from the goods that he has received, now it seems further reinforced by the second example. I would be too.

 

Jeff

[stuny]

Jeff -

 

When the OP created the thread he had experience only with the first unit. The OP received the 2nd unit 10 days after titling the original post.

 

Ultimately, the second unit may very well indicate a QC issue rather than a dealer issue as with the first unit, but we don't know.

[earleygallery]

A dirty/torn box is most likely due to the dealer (I'm sure Leica don't send out tatty boxes) but ultimately of no importance unless you're a collector.

 

Dust on the sensor is a fact of life.

 

Peeling leather on the other hand isn't acceptable on an expensive high quality item, no more so than the rust bubbles I once saw on the door of a brand new Aston Martin This was a car being displayed by Aston Martin at a corporate event day too!

 

Leica need to do some appraisals on their glue suppliers.

[aerogift]

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Dear all,

 

Thanks again for all comments and your post. I would still be here until I could get a good M9 or until I give up not buy any more and stay with Japanese digital world, only Leica analog would be with me.

 

I'm so sad now. I contacted DalePhotoAndDigital and spoke to a guy named David. I sent him a picture showing a defect. He said he would contact me back and never, ever until store closed. I tried to call him again since I reported this issue and he was always busy and couldn't take my phone.

 

I would like to try with B&H and now I lost all confidence since I don't know the issue is from Leica or from Dealer.

 

I would like to post pictures on this webboard but I don't know how to do it. Can anyone navigate me how to upload the picture?

 

BTW, I would still like to ask you guys here about your opinion. This would help me and may help other friends who are looking for buying M9 to make decision, not quality of the picture or camera but quality of customer satisfaction.

 

1. Is it acceptable for newly opened box camera containing dust?

2. The grip leather was peeled off.

3. The container inside has stain on Leica Box, or dent and torn package

4. Can I buy it directly from Leica? Is it more expensive? Can I return if I found the same issue here?

 

Now it seems I have to pay for shipping this camera back and cost me over $100 for two times it happened. I also lost the time to take fall colors with this M9 since I planned to use and waited for two months.

 

Sad sad sad

 

Thanks everyone again for listening and sharing your opinion.

[bocaburger]

The covering on modern Leica M cameras (since the M6) is not glued, it has a self-adhesive backing ("peel and stick") designed so it can be peeled back (carefully, so not to stretch it) by the service technician, and then re-applied at least once, if not more. Did you try just pressing the leatherette down with your thumbnail, or the edge of a credit card? I agree that in theory it should not have left the factory as such, although perhaps it just wasn't pressed hard enough, and came up some time in transit. I'm pretty intolerant of defects in new items, however if that was the only thing wrong with the camera and it would stick back down easily, I don't think I'd pay to ship it back, and then toss the dice again for a replacement camera. But that's just my own way of thinking. I don't have any explanation for the condition of the boxes on 2 cameras from different dealers (or the odd coincidence of adjacent serial numbers), but my M9 came in a clean, spiffy box with everything in its place, even though the dealer I bought it from took it out, put a battery in it, and gave it a once-over at my request before shipping it to me cross-country. I'll put in a well-deserved plug for Tony Rose/Popflash here. Some dealers act like they're doing you a favor taking your money, but my experience has been Tony goes all out for his customers. Back in earlier days I used to buy from Jim Kuehl (long since retired) for the same reason. Customer service and a nice attitude.

[phancj]

Just a thought, here is SE Asia we have no such thing as a money back guarantee. You buy anything you do not like it tough luck sell it as used. thats why I am so reluctant to buy anything over the net or overseas country where retailers are often very lenient on returns. Here, I am kind of assured that everything is brand new.

 

So here we research what we intend to buy before jumping in. The problems described here are very unlikely where I live.

[aerogift]

Dear members here,

 

Unbelievable story again sad and sad and sad for me with Leica M9.

 

Thanks David at DalePhotoAndDigital. He sent me a new M9 to me for replacement the one I had issue with Grip leather peeled off.

 

However, the new one I received has a bubble inside the LCD !!! Can I say this is Leica quality issue?

 

I really want to share the photos of all issues I have but I don't know how to upload on this website.

 

I would consider stopping buying M9 at this moment. I sincerely thank to David and DalePhotoAndDigital for their honest responsibility. I would like to see how Leica feel responsible on this issue.

 

I really love this camera but what I got is not worth my $7,000.

 

Thanks for your listening again.

[andybarton]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/about-leica-forum/144293-how-upload-photos-forum.html

[aerogift]

Hello Andy,

 

Thank you for your suggestion. I did mistake by clicking on "Insert image". It should be "attachments".

 

Please see all photo I documented regarding my issues.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[andybarton]

If those last shots are your "bubbles", that's perfectly normal grease that gets onto the sensor from the new shutter. It happens with a lot of digital cameras with shutters of this type, not just Leicas.

 

You will need to clean the sensor and all will be well.

 

The "second hand camera" and peeling vulcanite have been dealt with, of course.

[aerogift]

If those last shots are your "bubbles", that's perfectly normal grease that gets onto the sensor from the new shutter. It happens with a lot of digital cameras with shutters of this type, not just Leicas.

 

You will need to clean the sensor and all will be well.

 

The "second hand camera" and peeling vulcanite have been dealt with, of course.

 

Hello Andy,

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

I bought M9 brand new with cost of $7,000. The last shot is not bubble but it is dust on the sensor. I would be accepted this issue since it seems everyone will have and once you take more than 1000 shots, it can be cleaner or just send it out for cleaning.

 

Regarding my word "BUBBLE", there is bubble inside LCD. You can take a look on picture #3. It is not clear because it is difficult to take a shot showing you the bubble. But you can see the white thing on LCD.

 

Picture #4 shows the peeled off leather grip when I just opened the box.

 

Picture #1 and #2 show how bad the packages look like. Some might accept this but I couldn't as it looks like used item to me.

 

I would like to know anyone has this kind of issues.

[menos I M6]

Aerogift, I know, this seems very unfortunate to you, and I can understand your expectations, when shelling out 7.000 USD for a camera.

 

You bought new, so you are to expect a new camera - a damaged cartoon is understandably an annoyance, as you paid for new and the cartoon has already been opened.

 

I can guarantee you on this though: if you continue to use this camera, the described damages on the packaging are completely irrelevant, when selling this camera later. THe M9 will not become a collectible, where mint condition of camera and box will result in a higher value.

 

It will become likely a similar affair to todays M8.2 cameras on the second hand market - a damaged packaging in this way is an annoyance for a new buyer, paying in full, but completely irrelevant during the time, you use the camera and when you sell the camera later.

 

The peeling leatherette, your camera shows is exactly the corner on the digital M, that mostly starts to peel first.

I have seen quite a few second hand Ms, that show this exact effect.

This again is an annoyance for the full price.

Try, to press the leatherette back very hard for a few minutes with your thumb.

In most cases, it stays that way.

 

When you send your camera in the first time, you have to have it adjusted, the sensor cover glass cracks or other damage, Leica will very likely take care of fixing this leather issue for you.

Keep the photos and show them to Leica service, should such work be invoiced by fault to you.

I think, Leica service will react very reasonably.

 

For the dusty sensor, I can only comment, that this is the culprit of digital cameras with exchangeable lenses. You have to live with that. You either have to find a good camera technician, you trust near to you or learn, how to clean a sensor with professional tools and the correct procedure, as many digital users practice.

 

Having the dust on the sensor is likely a sign of having received an already opened camera.

 

The bubble on the LCD is again - annoying for the price you paid. If you are not a heavy user, where the camera is submitted to strong wear and scratches, it will stay annoying that way.

If you are a heavy user, it very soon will not catch your eye anymore and will be one very tiny of the many blemishes, the Leica will receive - after all, it is a camera.

 

If I were you with these "issues", I would try, to get a reasonable discount on the camera, as it is clearly an used item (M9 can be had used already for 500 − 1000 EUR under sales price these days).

This would almost result in getting a nice 50 Summarit from the dealer (which would equal in lower costs for the dealer, than paying you out the amount).

 

If this is not accepted from the dealer, demand a new unopened camera and continue the shuffle until you are satisfied.

 

Good luck - the only quality issue, I see, that can be accounted to Leica quality is the leatherette (very minor issue) and possibly the bubble on LCD (I cannot see, if an external force could have produced this defect - ie former buyer).

[Guest Overview]

I think everyone with a digital camera with removable lenses should learn

to clean their sensors THE RIGHT WAY (please).

It seems intimidating and a little scary at first but soon it becomes a simple job.

It's going to gather dust whatever you do... do do yourself a favor and research the

subject.

[holmes]

First I don't own an M9 for personal reasons. Before you start in on the manufacturer or the dealer or the unknown middle man. Ask your self this. What sort of non Leica warranty did Optics provide? I say non-Leica as if the camera came in under the table or some other way, except through established manufacturer's import policy. Don't even think about calling Leica and telling them your problems. They will tell you next time go through an established Leica dealer. The box was wet or damp, not a Leica problem: the leather was coming off. Not a Leica problem. Sorry to sound heartless but that's what Leica will tell you. When you are spending $9,000.00 on anything go through an authorized dealer. If Leica says "sin loi". You can always hire an attorney and let him send a nice letter to Optics. Might do the trick.

I have six Leicas, three Ms and three Rs all bought used and immediately sent to Wisconsin for some CLA. All are flawless. My only concession to digital is my Canon 40D ( just back from full Canon service, and my C-Luxe-2). That cost, the 40D, because the warranty had expired. There are times when it pays to pay the full amount from an authorized dealer, as you are finding out.

[lct]

There is no reason why a buyer should accept any defect like that bubble or a peeling skin but sensor dirts are facts of life and who care about packages if you're not a collector? A Leica is like a Ferrari, one must deserve them my friend.

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[RockyIII]

There are times when it pays to pay the full amount from an authorized dealer, as you are finding out.

 

The Leica website lists Optics Planet in Northbrook, Illinois, as an authorized dealer.

 

Rocky