jonmurray Posted September 21, 2010 Share #1 Posted September 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm trying not to get too wound up about the M9Ti but I'm having difficulty. The fact that Leica cameras are even still in production is amazing given the shrinking market share, ill conceived product design decisions, poor marketing and financial management of the company over recent years. The M9 rescued the company. Why? Because it was a brilliantly engineered photographic tool in best Leica tradition which, despite it's price, is bringing a huge number of new customers to the Leica brand. How should a smart company capitalize on this new found success? Perhaps showcasing the amazing sensor technology and gadgetry you have cooking up in the labs? No; if you're Leica management you showcase a $22,000 piece of 'Jewelery' with almost zero technical innovation over the M9 (Give me a break on LED illuminated frame lines.) Just what message did they think this would send to the new generation of photographers they hope to attract as future customers? Leica may be one of the best at producing brilliantly engineered photographic tools but in the customer marketing field they appear to be clueless. I expanded on my viewpoint here: Leica's 'Fashion' vs. 'Function' Problem • Random Observations Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hi jonmurray, Take a look here Did Leica Management Learn Anything?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted September 21, 2010 Share #2 Posted September 21, 2010 It was about the early 1930s, when Leitz with Oscar Barnack still being their engineer for cameras, announced a "Leica Luxus" which was gold-plated and had a a special leathering. It came in a fancy leather handbag. What was the message they gave with this toy to the photographing world? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_thomsen Posted September 21, 2010 Share #3 Posted September 21, 2010 really funny that the leica mangament decided to hire the old fashion guy 'de silva' as a designer to create the future.....hahahahaha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted September 21, 2010 Share #4 Posted September 21, 2010 It was about the early 1930s, when Leitz with Oscar Barnack still being their engineer for cameras, announced a "Leica Luxus" which was gold-plated and had a a special leathering. It came in a fancy leather handbag. What was the message they gave with this toy to the photographing world? The same message as this latest TI "innovation". That fools and their money are soon parted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_thomsen Posted September 21, 2010 Share #5 Posted September 21, 2010 i guess the management like retro. just read the ad introducing the S2 on facebook. "Leica S2. a class of it's own".....that was the ROVER slogan before the carbrand went bancrupt. hihihihihi cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonmurray Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted September 21, 2010 @UliWer There are all sorts of things you can 'afford' to do when you are the new innovative kid on the block as they were back then. They defined a new market and had very little competition for quite some time. That is very different from today when you are competing for the eyes and ears of consumers in a very very competitive market. The sort of 'Fluff' represented by the M9Ti does nothing to build your brand credibility with the very consumers your future depends on. Before anyone compares Leica's decision to auto manufacturers producing expensive exotics it would be good to remember that is every case those high end vehicles demonstrate technology which consumers understand will ultimate trickle down to the average car. That strategy build long term brand equity. Its not clear to me how the M9Ti does that for Leica. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 21, 2010 Share #7 Posted September 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have said this 57 times on these forums. I am incredulous. I am baffled. There is no product between the X1 at $2k and the M9 at $9k (with standard lens). That's a seven_thousand_dollar_hole in the product line, which Nikon and Canon are all too happy to fill (they both have a machine right at the 4 grand mark). If Ford made a Pinto and a Lincoln -and nothing in between- GM and Dodge would be dancing in the streets. How the hell do you run a business with no product in a vast market sector, like that? Can you actually envision Ford doing something like that? "What... are you out of your MIND?!" I don't understand why ... they don't understand. You have dozens and dozens of people around here begging and pleading for YEARS, for a machine they can put R glass on. No response. I'm hoping this is a really weird trick. Maybe they will let the cat out of the bag at the end of the week. I don't know what they would hope to gain by doing that but... "whatever". Even if they do, I think I will -still- be pissed off. Oh yeah!!! The X1, in black! STILL no viewfinder. Nikon and Canon are eating your lunch, and now, you just invited Fuji for coffee and biscuits. ... are you guys nuts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 21, 2010 Share #8 Posted September 21, 2010 ...and now, you just invited Fuji for coffee and biscuits. ... are you guys nuts? Adding the caveat of "IF" the Fuji X100 arrives as promoted and "IF" the image quality and performance is as promised, not only will it be coffee and biscuits, it will open a slew of doors for copycat rangefinder designs. And while Leica may enjoy being king of the heap with the best rangefinders money can buy, they will have given away what is rightfully theirs. Leica is rangefinder. If anyone should be putting rangefinders in the hands of those that want a "pro" walk around camera, it should be Leica. And to think, they actually had the direction six years ago with the Digilux 2. I doubt they're nimble enough to respond to the call... but Leica needs a $4500 kit... sooner than later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted September 21, 2010 Share #9 Posted September 21, 2010 ...I am incredulous. I am baffled. There is no product between the X1 at $2k and the M9 at $9k (with standard lens). That's a seven_thousand_dollar_hole in the product line, which Nikon and Canon are all too happy to fill (they both have a machine right at the 4 grand mark)... I agree with your sentiment. But consider that Leica normally doesn't cater to this middle-ground. The other manufacturers, as you pointed out - already occupy this vast sea of mediocrity. Leica tends to cater to the high-end, upscale market. Perhaps more so now than ever. How should they compete directly with the likes of Canon and Nikon on this front? However, I think Leica should continue the M8, albeit as the M8.3. Take what they've learned with the M9, roll it into this model and sell both. Two different price points, no new R&D or retooling needed. Just like Canon and Nikon - offer a crop and a full frame model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSchmidt Posted September 21, 2010 Share #10 Posted September 21, 2010 Rolls-Royce does not have a slew of models either. And they don't cover various price points. In addition, I'm sure a new Honda has more technological innovations that the Rolls does. So why does anyone want to buy the Rolls? All I know, is I loved my M8, and now I love my M9. And personally, I'm glad that Leica does not subscribe to the tail chasing that Nikon and Canon do by constantly upping the "specs". Henri Cartier-Bresson and Ansel Adams did not take the photographs they took because of "specs" and latest technology. New innovations from other companies are a wonderful thing, and offer photographers so many choices. In the end, its what works best for you. Which camera makes you want to pick it up and shoot. Which camera inspires you to be creative and artistic. That's a very personal choice. For me, there is nothing like my Leica! Ok sorry, I'll step down off my soap box now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 21, 2010 Share #11 Posted September 21, 2010 You have dozens and dozens of people around here begging and pleading for YEARS, for a machine they can put R glass on. Dozens and dozens don't make a market, in a segment already bursting with alternative offers. There are already at least three brands of dSLR that you can put your R glass on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 21, 2010 Share #12 Posted September 21, 2010 Adding the caveat of "IF" the Fuji X100 arrives as promoted and "IF" the image quality and performance is as promised, not only will it be coffee and biscuits, it will open a slew of doors for copycat rangefinder designs. And while Leica may enjoy being king of the heap with the best rangefinders money can buy, they will have given away what is rightfully theirs. Leica is rangefinder. If anyone should be putting rangefinders in the hands of those that want a "pro" walk around camera, it should be Leica. And to think, they actually had the direction six years ago with the Digilux 2. I doubt they're nimble enough to respond to the call... but Leica needs a $4500 kit... sooner than later. On the other hand, the existence of lower-grade "copy-cat" designs often helps the marketing of the original upmarket brand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 21, 2010 Share #13 Posted September 21, 2010 I have said this 57 times on these forums. I am incredulous. I am baffled. There is no product between the X1 at $2k and the M9 at $9k (with standard lens). That's a seven_thousand_dollar_hole in the product line, which Nikon and Canon are all too happy to fill (they both have a machine right at the 4 grand mark). Well, I could imagine such a product: take the M9, downsize the sensor to say 1,3-crop, perhaps leave out some funtions of the menue- there you have it. Oh, it's already there, called M8? Sorry I, didn't notice, I was just marketing. I don't understand why ... they don't understand. You have dozens and dozens of people around here begging and pleading for YEARS, for a machine they can put R glass on. ... May be you find another dozen or two outside this forum. Yes, that would be a huge market, they just would be able to fulfill the demands, production capacities being so high as they are at Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 21, 2010 Share #14 Posted September 21, 2010 Well, if they want to be Rolls-royce, then be it. Dump everything below the M9. And yes Andy, there are other brands. That -of course- would defeat the purpose of even being here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted September 21, 2010 Share #15 Posted September 21, 2010 Well, I could imagine such a product: take the M9, downsize the sensor to say 1,3-crop, perhaps leave out some funtions of the menue- there you have it. Oh, it's already there, called M8? Sorry I, didn't notice, I was just marketing. Oh I'm sorry! Can you direct me to the store that sells this brand new camera? You know, the M8 that I can put my R glass on? I was just marketing too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 21, 2010 Share #16 Posted September 21, 2010 And yes Andy, there are other brands. That -of course- would defeat the purpose of even being here. Not if you want to use your R glass on a dSLR it wouldn't. If Leica are unable to provide you with what you want, look elsewhere. I did, and I'm very happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted September 21, 2010 Share #17 Posted September 21, 2010 The M9 rescued the company. Why? Because it was a brilliantly engineered photographic tool in best Leica tradition which, despite it's price, is bringing a huge number of new customers to the Leica brand. From what I saw - it was the M8 that started the engine of bringing new customers in. Between renewed lens sales and an interest in the exotics such as the Noctilux and 50/1.4 asph - the M8 got the ball rolling. The M9 was the step they had to take to keep users in the fold, and bring even more in who were sitting on the fence due to the quirks of the M8... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 21, 2010 Share #18 Posted September 21, 2010 Come on people, Ti is really pretty. Wear it on your neck and you can be the envy of every photog you see. You don`t even have to know how to take a decent picture. Repeat it is probably the most prettty camera I have ever seen. If that floats your boat, so be it. As far as electronic frame lines, it is probably a cost savings disguised as an improvement. Are they selling any S2`s now that it is ready for market? There was a ready market for the R10. Now they have half the customer base kludge mounting their lenses on other peoples DSLRs and losing most of the modern functionality. I for one have both my PC lenses adapted to Nikon full frame. Viso 90,135,65,200,280,400,560 all work with the camera quest adapter. Thinking about a few more kludge mounts for the 21,60,100 APO, Shame I have to resort to this. Fotodiox and Leitax are the makers. I have Fotos and they are fine. Understand there are Chinese versions too. BTW, they all work great image wise on Nikon. The D700 has a split image focus screen, the D3 just confirmation lights. Only problem is I have regressed to 1950 early slr functionality. There are all the Nikon lenses I can use if I need AF or auto diaphragm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chistoso Posted September 21, 2010 Share #19 Posted September 21, 2010 Could the markup on the Titanium M9 be so huge that Leica would have a few more million for R&D? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted September 21, 2010 Share #20 Posted September 21, 2010 Wear it on your neck and you can be the envy of every photog you see. Sadly, you can't do this, as you can't fit a standard neck strap on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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