Flash for daylight fill

[tim_c]

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Hi Forum,

 

Can anyone recommend a flash to use for daylight fill on my M8? Money is tight at the moment so I can't afford the SF24D. I was considering a used SF20. Is the SF20 fully compatible with the M8 or would I be better off saving some money and getting another cheaper brand?

 

Thanks, Tim

[bocaburger]

The SF20 will not access the M8's version of TTL flash (preflash), however I gave up using the SF24D in "TTL" mode because I found the results more consistent using "Auto" mode and setting a -1.7 compensation on the flash. The advantage of flash that meters through the lens vs an external sensor are usually moot with the rangefinder, unless using a Visoflex (long telephoto, macro). The SF20 will pick up the ISO (and focal length if the lens is coded) from the M8, which is a great convenience if you tend to change them often. I believe, if memory serves me, the SF20 has a more limited range of auto-aperture selections. Both of these flashes use expensive, non-rechargeable lithium batteries, and neither of them has bounce/swivel heads.

 

Any Metz SCA-3000 series compatible flash with any version SCA-3502 module will read the ISO (and focal length, if the lens is coded) from the M8, and work in "Auto" mode. The main issue with those is their size being somewhat disproportionate to the M8.

 

There are numerous non-dedicated flashes (Sunpak 383 Super, and Vivitar 283 being two prime examples) which can be used on the M8 in AUTO mode, and have 3-4 possible aperture selections. To use these flashes for daylight fill, you need to set the flash to an ISO 1.5-2 stops faster than the one you actually have set on the camera, and then select the auto aperture the flash calculator advises, to match the f-stop you set on the lens. That way the flash will underexpose rather than trying to make the flash the key light.

[wstotler]

Hi Forum,

 

Can anyone recommend a flash to use for daylight fill on my M8? Money is tight at the moment so I can't afford the SF24D. I was considering a used SF20. Is the SF20 fully compatible with the M8 or would I be better off saving some money and getting another cheaper brand?

 

Thanks, Tim

 

Tim,

 

I use the SF24D off-camera with a Nikon SC-28 cord, shooting in TTL mode. I've had excellent results. The SF24D (with TTL) is a convincing fill flash in contre-jour lighting situations when subjects are no further away than filling the 50mm framelines when shooting with a 35mm lens. (E.g., shooting with 35mm, twiddle frame selector, 50mm lines come up--subject fills 50mm framing.)

 

I assume the SF20 would have similar performance. However, I do remember that the SF20 does not do TTL with the M8. Which means you're shooting with the flash on all manual. (You might want to be doing this anyway.) If you are, there are many options available--just look at some of the threads in the forum to find information about the kind of hotshoe adaptor you'll need. (Or not need.)

 

The main issue is one of flash power, I think. I've looked at the SF58 but don't need that much punch for the type of shooting I'm doing right now.

 

Cheers!

Will

 

P.S. Posted at the same time as Bocaburger--his advice is sound.

[Paul Glendell]

Hello Tim

 

I have both an M8 and the sf 20 flash, yes you can use it for daylight fill but it is not very powerful. I was using it yesteday in bright sun and it was struggling to to fill much at all - mind you I was set on f 5.6. But yes it will work. However on the M8 is will only work using the sensor in the flash, not in the camera so you have to set it up and not change the lens aperture. If you do want to change the aperture on the lens then you need to change the flash setting as well.

 

But it is a cheaper way of using fill flash on the M8 Good luck

 

Paul

www.glendell.co.uk

[jaapv]

I have a Metz 20 miniflash that I don't like and might sell for a limited amount. It needs mental calculations for fill flash, however. (if it goes through this forum i will donate to it, this should go through B&S in theory.)

[AncientCityPhoto]

Flashes

 

Check out the LumoPro flashes. Decent stuff at a nice price!

[tim_c]

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It's a difficult decision as to which flash I go for as, although I've been taking photos regularly for the last 6 years, I've always shot natural light stuff and never used a flash unless it was on a point and shoot camera.

 

Does anyone one know what the guide numbers are for the SF20 and SF24? It would give me some kind of context as to how bright they are compared to the Metz etc.

 

The small size of the Leica or Metz flash is ideal for me as I have a small photography bag and I take pride in it being only half full

[earleygallery]

I have a very small flash which I use for fill in lighting, it's quite low powered so I don't worry about exposure, just expose as normal (for appropriate flash sync speed) and it works well, just to lift the shadows or give some 'lift' on an overcast day, without looking like a flash shot. Some flashguns have a low power setting for macro/fill also.

 

Whatever you go for you need to experiment for the kind of results you're looking for.

[tim_c]

I have a very small flash which I use for fill in lighting, it's quite low powered so I don't worry about exposure, just expose as normal (for appropriate flash sync speed) and it works well, just to lift the shadows or give some 'lift' on an overcast day, without looking like a flash shot. Some flashguns have a low power setting for macro/fill also.

 

Whatever you go for you need to experiment for the kind of results you're looking for.

 

Which flash do you use?

[Islandmike]

I find that a flash pointed at a portrait subject for daylight fill tends to give a very tiny highlight in the eyes that annoys me and is sometimes harsh, which annoys me even more.

 

So I attach a white disc of card to the tilted head of a flash (using rubber bands). The size illustrated here is handy, but a 25cm disc is better.

 

This is just a cheap Mecablitz 36 C2 (bought second-hand), which I leave set on the maximum aperture auto setting. The same technique works well on my Nikon SB600s.

 

This throws a little soft light forward to illuminate faces better and give a pleasant, larger white highlight in the eyes. Works OK indoors, too, and exposure is set by trial and error for the first preparatory shot, then just tweaked a bit during the shoot.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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[Guest mc_k]

... "Auto" mode and setting a -1.7 compensation on the flash...

 

1.7 ... how do you get that?

 

Metz 36, as above, is only about $100 USD

[photoshutter]

Metz 54-mz-4

[jaapv]

That is a bit of a biggie to carry for just fill-flash.

[earleygallery]

Which flash do you use?

 

I use a tiny Wotan flash (no longer available) powered by one AAA battery, or an old Vivtar which has a 1/3rd power option, used with a diffuser.

[squarenegs]

Have a look at this one: YINYAN CY-20 Small mini Hot Shoe Flash w/ PC Sync Port - eBay (item 250419260160 end time Sep-27-10 09:45:12 PDT) $12.45 with shipping from HK!

 

I just got one and it gets the job done. It features a full swivel head that actually does move smoothly with nice, positive stops at each angle postition. While it's manual and about a stop below the guide number claimed, a ceiling bounce will fill a 12" x 15' room. Manual... remember your GN and long division from elementary school. Of course, the single, killer feature of this little unit is it's "cheap"!!!

Regards to all on the Forum

 

Sam

[wda]

Hi Forum,

 

Can anyone recommend a flash to use for daylight fill on my M8? Money is tight at the moment so I can't afford the SF24D. I was considering a used SF20. Is the SF20 fully compatible with the M8 or would I be better off saving some money and getting another cheaper brand?

 

Thanks, Tim

Tim, I rarely use flash but have been experimenting with my SF20 and M8, purely for controlled fill-in. It is excellent; just set the degree of flash attenuation you need, arrived at by trial and error. Second-hand SF20s are very cheap to buy.

[bocaburger]

1.7 ... how do you get that?

 

You're right, I was thinking of my Metz 54MZ3. The SF24D only lets you set compensation in full stops in AUTO mode. However if you wanted half stops it's simply a matter of clicking the lens aperture a half stop up or down. The flash still thinks its set on a full aperture stop and will expose as if it was. So for example if you have the flash set to f/4 and -1 compensation, and you actually put the lens between f/4 and f/5.6 it will give you the equivalent of a -1.5 compensation.