Leicakillen Posted July 29, 2010 Share #1 Posted July 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I often take close range images of e.g flowers - at 0,8-1,0 meters. I very often get truly excellent results when using my 90/2,8 Elmarit-M or the very handy 50/2,8 Elmar M. A couple of months ago I bought a Summilux 50 ASPH. When using this for close range at 2,8-4 the results have been somewhat disappointing - not that biting Leica-like sharpness. At the same time I have had some problems with the RF adjustments - so I thought it was due to this. However yesterday I read in LFI 4/2006 that the 50/1,4 ASPH is SOFT at close range and !!?? My 50/2,8 should be sharper than Summilux at close range?! A surprise for me - I got the impression that the Summilux was better in all ways!! Could anyone of you confirm this? How big is this soft range for the Summilux - up to 1 meter - 1,5?? Is it only when using apertures of 1,4-2,8? Does the new Summicron have this soft tendency as well? Thanks for any input and help, /Anders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Leicakillen, Take a look here M9 50/1,4 ASPH and close range sharpness. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted July 29, 2010 Share #2 Posted July 29, 2010 ....However yesterday I read in LFI 4/2006 that the 50/1,4 ASPH is SOFT at close range and !!?? My 50/2,8 should be sharper than Summilux at close range?! A surprise for me - I got the impression that the Summilux was better in all ways!!... Are you sure, they said so in the LFI-article? As far as I remember they said the old non-asph 50 Summilux was soft at close focus, whilst the Elmar was always excellent in this range, and the new asph Summilux was the first to top the Elmar. Maybe my remembrance is wrong, as I havn't got the maganzine at hand. I cannot confirm the 50-lux asph to be soft at close distances. Though it can be tricky to get the right focus freehand at close range and with max aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicakillen Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted July 29, 2010 Are you sure, they said so in the LFI-article? As far as I remember they said the old non-asph 50 Summilux was soft at close focus, whilst the Elmar was always excellent in this range, and the new asph Summilux was the first to top the Elmar. On page 42 LFI 4/2006 I read in a test of the Summilux-M 50/1,4 ASPH " At one meter range and f/1,4 a certain softness cannot be denied, while a f/5,6 the reproduction ...gains fantastic plasticity". /Anders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted July 29, 2010 Share #4 Posted July 29, 2010 O.k.! Well, if one would deny a "certain" softness at f/1.4 I'd ask what he was talking about. I am not sure what the "softness-results" would be if you compared the 50 lux asph at f/1.4 and the Elmar at f/2.8, though I am rather sure if you compare both at f/5.6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted July 29, 2010 Share #5 Posted July 29, 2010 My Summilux 50 ASPH is slightly off focus even though it has been to Leica once for calibration. Are you sure that your is spot on? A small focus error is most visible at close range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted July 29, 2010 Share #6 Posted July 29, 2010 Adan in a thread 'In Praise of the Mandler lenses' [Customer Forum]: "Whether by chance or by design, it [the 50mm Summicron] has very good close-up performance (.7 meters), one reason why I prefer it to the 50 'lux ASPH, which is incredible at infinity @ f/1.4, but has always gone soft for me in the under-1-meter range." This was what I found, notwithstanding focus checks showing the focus was accurate at short distances. Excellent lens above 3m; but recently I found a preaspheric black paint Summilux which eclipsed the more up to date ASPH I had (now sold!) in pretty well every respect. In fact for flowers at close distances my v4 Summicron 35 was much sharper. There is always the question of sample variations but at around 700mm @ f1.4 the depth of field is minuscule. Wall at 45 degrees to axis of lens (50 Summilux preasph) f1.4, c700mm. Focus on BluTack blob. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/127266-m9-5014-asph-and-close-range-sharpness/?do=findComment&comment=1391419'>More sharing options...
DFV Posted July 29, 2010 Share #7 Posted July 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you want I can run the same test with the LUX-Asph., Summicron and the Summicron 50th Anniversary. I would be surprised if the Lux did not do well at close range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 29, 2010 Share #8 Posted July 29, 2010 Lux 50 asph, f/1.4, 0.7 meter. Good enough for me. (R-D1, 800 iso, 100% crop & FF, hand held) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/127266-m9-5014-asph-and-close-range-sharpness/?do=findComment&comment=1391503'>More sharing options...
leicashot Posted July 30, 2010 Share #9 Posted July 30, 2010 This shot was done at 0.7m wide open. Soft? I don't think so, at least not this sample, for sale at under $3k - shameless plug. Full image on M9 100% crop wide open Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted July 30, 2010 Share #10 Posted July 30, 2010 Actually I think I may know what your issue is. If you focus and recompose at the closest focusing distance the chances of achieving correct focus is very slim, even if you compensate. Also at this distance I have seen signs of 'glow' or softening of fine details especially if what you're shooting is backlit and not a flat plane. This is not a fault of the lens, but rather an engineering feet almost imposible to overcome in lens design. This is the closest lens to perfect in 50mm, and nothing comes close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 30, 2010 Share #11 Posted July 30, 2010 Nice pic but f/2. Problem is at f/1.4 according to the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicakillen Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted July 30, 2010 Actually I think I may know what your issue is. If you focus and recompose at the closest focusing distance the chances of achieving correct focus is very slim, even if you compensate. Also at this distance I have seen signs of 'glow' or softening of fine details especially if what you're shooting is backlit and not a flat plane. This is not a fault of the lens, but rather an engineering feet almost imposible to overcome in lens design. This is the closest lens to perfect in 50mm, and nothing comes close. Thanks very much leicashot. Your image is perfect - exactly the kind of quality I am looking for ( 3k? - I take it!)!! If this is at 0,7 m and full open or 2,0 then this proves I am wrong - this is NOT soft. Hmmm - hope I do not have a bad version of the Summilux..... BTW - nice girl too!! /Anders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 30, 2010 Share #13 Posted July 30, 2010 For what it's worth, Puts has a similar opinion in his report: "When you are in the close up distances from 0.7 to about 1 meter, the floating element can improve matters quite a bit, but then at the wider apertures we get soft images. For best quality in this focusing range, we need to stop down to /5.6 or smaller to get good imagery." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 30, 2010 Share #14 Posted July 30, 2010 Nice pic but f/2. Problem is at f/1.4 according to the OP. That is a rather confused post. Firstly which photo is at f/2? You cannot validly compare the performance of any lens at f/1.4 to another at f/2.8 for example (the OP's other mentioned lens). The Summilux 50 ASPH is specifically designed for better close performance as well. Web versions in any event of course provide only general impressions and are subject to many other variables. If you are referring to the photo just above your post of the people with made up 'zombie like' injuries plus the 100% crop , it looks to be a very decent illustration to my eyes. The poster says that it was shot wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted July 30, 2010 Share #15 Posted July 30, 2010 Nice pic but f/2. Problem is at f/1.4 according to the OP. The shot was at f/1.4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 30, 2010 Share #16 Posted July 30, 2010 EXIF says f/2 no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted July 30, 2010 Share #17 Posted July 30, 2010 EXIF says f/2 no? Lightroom sometimes interpret my shots at 1.4 as 1.7 or 2.0. I guess the way lightroom figure out the aperture based on exposure it´s not as accurate as electronic transmission from DSLR´s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 30, 2010 Share #18 Posted July 30, 2010 Ah yes i was on PSE but CS3 says f/2 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted July 30, 2010 Share #19 Posted July 30, 2010 I often take close range images of e.g flowers - at 0,8-1,0 meters. I very often get truly excellent results when using my 90/2,8 Elmarit-M or the very handy 50/2,8 Elmar M. A couple of months ago I bought a Summilux 50 ASPH. When using this for close range at 2,8-4 the results have been somewhat disappointing - not that biting Leica-like sharpness. At the same time I have had some problems with the RF adjustments - so I thought it was due to this. However yesterday I read in LFI 4/2006 that the 50/1,4 ASPH is SOFT at close range and !!?? My 50/2,8 should be sharper than Summilux at close range?! A surprise for me - I got the impression that the Summilux was better in all ways!!Could anyone of you confirm this? How big is this soft range for the Summilux - up to 1 meter - 1,5?? Is it only when using apertures of 1,4-2,8? Does the new Summicron have this soft tendency as well? Thanks for any input and help, /Anders Those close range shots are more of an SLR subject, and therefore rangefinder lenses won't be calibrated for that. That's my thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted July 30, 2010 Share #20 Posted July 30, 2010 Ah yes i was on PSE but CS3 says f/2 as well. LCT, With either software it's only reading the exif value of the camera's estimation of the f/stop based on the difference between the blue dot reading and the exposure I believe. To my eye the picture has shallow enough depth of focus to be f/1.4 and I'm prepared to take Leicashot at his word. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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