kuspen Posted July 21, 2010 Share #101 Posted July 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) The camera was ordered 0909. I got in january 10. Delivered fr.o.m. Rajala prophoto Stockholm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Hi kuspen, Take a look here Crack!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hoppyman Posted July 25, 2010 Share #102 Posted July 25, 2010 Regarding the theory of an off centre sensor, can someone simply place an M8 carefully under an M9. Align carefully with a engineers square. Open both shutters for sensor inspection and make a careful picture of the stack? Add a couple of vertical lines in Photoshop and everyone can see the answer irrespective of theory and opinion. Sorry I sold my M8 so I can't do this personally. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 26, 2010 Share #103 Posted July 26, 2010 That's really bad new Lars. You have my commiserations. I guess "that's yer lot". (really bad joke) The old man from when it still happens! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 26, 2010 Share #104 Posted July 26, 2010 Why not have a separate thread ONLY for SNs similarly affected It's here: Cracked Sensor Serial Numbers ONLY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 26, 2010 Share #105 Posted July 26, 2010 Regarding the theory of an off centre sensor, can someone simply place an M8 carefully under an M9. Align carefully with a engineers square.Open both shutters for sensor inspection and make a careful picture of the stack? Add a couple of vertical lines in Photoshop and everyone can see the answer irrespective of theory and opinion. Sorry I sold my M8 so I can't do this personally. . Not to precise. Why not have a repair person use his mount alignment gauge to check? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 26, 2010 Share #106 Posted July 26, 2010 Jaap yes that would be more precise of course. Nevertheless if there was a gross difference (no I don't think that there is) it would be apparent in my simpler test that someone could do at home. Just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 26, 2010 Share #107 Posted July 26, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Still Geoff, I cannot imagine what an off-centre sensor (which not) would have to do with a sensor crack. I can imagine a sensor that has been "forced" in under stress doing so, but it is utterly unimaginable with the tolerances involved that that should be the case. And then it does not explain why this supposed stress-induced red shift should manifest itself on wideangle lenses alone. Let's put this link between separate problems to rest once and for all. Two problems, two causes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 26, 2010 Share #108 Posted July 26, 2010 Why not have a separate thread ONLY for SNs similarly affected It's here: Cracked Sensor Serial Numbers ONLY That is a worthwhile, constructive initiative, Andy. As yet only a couple of the already reported faults transcribed by their owners so far but I'm sure that will catch up. I think that we all have every symapthy for people unfortunate enough to encounter this or any fault, too. Based on our very broad guesses on production numbers the current (Forum) reported fault rate may be something like 0.1 percent. (based on a guess of 20,000 delivered and the reports here reaching 20 (?). That order of magnitude anyway. We shall have to see what the figures develop as, but perhaps it gives some perspective. Someone keen on maths and archives could check how many total deliveries have actually been reported by Forum members thus far and plot that instead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 26, 2010 Share #109 Posted July 26, 2010 Jaap I have no expertise in that area at all . I can only say that my personal M9 has never exhibited any red edge effect with my 28 and 24 lenses and, fingers crossed, I am not one of the unlucky folks who have had a sensor cover glass problem. I have seen the red edge effect very visible in test shots with my M8 and the Super Elmar 18. I shot a few frames with one at Meister in Berlin last year and set my camera wrongly. It's actually a good insight into just how much is being corrected in camera (when set correctly) with the wider lenses. Same lens model shot at Hessenpark with camera set correctly and there was zero effect. Of course I have seen both issues demonstrated in the threads here. My suggested experiment was just to see if anyone could easily detect a visible displacement of the M9 sensor location over that of the M8. I'm very interested in learning from the discussions that sometimes flow from these threads and in the level of expertise that many of our members demonstrate. Still Geoff, I cannot imagine what an off-centre sensor (which not) would have to do with a sensor crack. I can imagine a sensor that has been "forced" in under stress doing so, but it is utterly unimaginable with the tolerances involved that that should be the case. And then it does not explain why this supposed stress-induced red shift should manifest itself on wideangle lenses alone. Let's put this link between separate problems to rest once and for all. Two problems, two causes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 26, 2010 Share #110 Posted July 26, 2010 Solms sensor adjustment department? Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/126049-crack/?do=findComment&comment=1388327'>More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 26, 2010 Share #111 Posted July 26, 2010 Of course I have seen both issues demonstrated in the threads here. My suggested experiment was just to see if anyone could easily detect a visible displacement of the M9 sensor location over that of the M8. I'm very interested in learning from the discussions that sometimes flow from these threads and in the level of expertise that many of our members demonstrate. Hi There Geoff The problem with this one is that (as Michael so excellently pointed out), a displaced sensor doesn't explain the red edge issue . . . there is no very obvious way for it to explain cracked coverglasses either. Added to which Leica have denied that the sensor is offset. The whole thing seems to cascade from Mark Norton's 'you can't fit a full frame sensor in an M8 body' thread . . . . . . but they did! I haven't seen any signs of expertise involved in advocation of this idea, but it's worrying that it's taken hold to the extent that those like Shootist are now simply stating it as an accepted fact. Personally I think it would be better if it were just allowed to drop. Wilson - :0 :0 I wonder if he isn't involved in rangefinder adjustment too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 26, 2010 Share #112 Posted July 26, 2010 Wilson - :0 :0 I wonder if he isn't involved in rangefinder adjustment too! It is the new Nibelungen Multi Tool - one side sensor alignment adjustment; other side rangefinder. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 26, 2010 Share #113 Posted July 26, 2010 It is the new Nibelungen Multi Tool - one side sensor alignment adjustment; other side rangefinder. Wilson I bet he uses that beard to clean the sensors as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 26, 2010 Share #114 Posted July 26, 2010 Hey don't make me the stalking horse on this. I have an opinion but it's not an informed opinion and I'm carefully avoiding adding it The whole idea was to add another verifiable fact. I remember Mark's excellent M8 threads well. From those we know that the M8 sensor assembly has three locating points and we know from the assembly tour video at Leica that those points are where the shimming is hand adjusted for the best accuracy of the sensor location. The measurement method involves an interferometer. Sensor positioning in the M9 must be at least as precise which suggests a similar methodology. Wilson's cartoon gave me a smile but it don't think that Thor had to deal often with shims needed to maintain precision down to hundredth's of a mm and his anvil was seldom interferometer calibrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted July 26, 2010 Share #115 Posted July 26, 2010 Solms sensor adjustment department? Wilson Disturbingly, he seems to have a crack in his sensor adjustment tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 26, 2010 Share #116 Posted July 26, 2010 Disturbingly, he seems to have a crack in his sensor adjustment tool. And it's certainly installed off-centre Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELCAN Posted July 27, 2010 Share #117 Posted July 27, 2010 I have one since October 2009 but I did not use too much, only about 1000 actuation, what happen if the sensor crack in 3 years???? Will Leica cover my camera, or we need to shoot and shoot just because I´m afraid my sensor can crack out of the warranty ¿?¿ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Posted July 27, 2010 Share #118 Posted July 27, 2010 statistic from topic: SN of cracked sensor M9 Here is an updated representation - if somone wants to make something cleaner (GNUplot?), feel free! In x-axis: individuals # that reported sensor cracks. Some people have not reported the dates, some # are still empty y-axis: retreive date to crack date... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/126049-crack/?do=findComment&comment=1389469'>More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 27, 2010 Share #119 Posted July 27, 2010 statistic from topic: SN of cracked sensor M9 Here is an updated representation - if somone wants to make something cleaner (GNUplot?), feel free! In x-axis: individuals # that reported sensor cracks. Some people have not reported the dates, some # are still empty y-axis: retreive date to crack date... Very nice, but I'm not sure that it's very interesting how long thy last. I would have thought a bar chart of when the cracked cameras were purchased would be most interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it just 1 in September, October, November, December and one in January i.e. none from purchases for the last six months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted July 27, 2010 Share #120 Posted July 27, 2010 I have one since October 2009 but I did not use too much, only about 1000 actuation, what happen if the sensor crack in 3 years???? Will Leica cover my camera, or we need to shoot and shoot just because I´m afraid my sensor can crack out of the warranty ¿?¿ Leica's history with this sort of thing would suggest that they will certainly fix it even if it's out of warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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