SideB Posted July 1, 2010 Share #1 Posted July 1, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am wondering if anyone else is having difficulty getting their gear back from a respected UK Leica restorer. I am going to be deliverately vague here because I am reluctant to embarrass him in public. The gentleman in question has had a lens of mine for five years. He kept telling me he was waiting for a new front element to be made but it has never materialised. In January I told him I was fed up with waiting and asked him to return the lens which he said he would do. Nothing ever arrived despite calls every couple of weeks to chase it up. The lens is worth around £400 in its current state and I had plans to trade it for another camera. A few months ago a viewfinder he had serviced for me needed attention to I sent it back under his guarentee, asking him to return the two items together once he had repaired it. That was several months ago and I haven't seen either item since. I have been calling him regularly and we always have very friendly conversations at the end of which he says: "I will dig out your lens and send it back next week". Next week has been and gone more times than I can count. I have so far resisted the temptation to get angry with him as I know he's getting on, and also there's no one better at fixing old Leicas, but it has got to the pointat which I have to decide to take some action or just write off a valuable lens and a viewfinder. If you are in the same position you will know who I am talking about but before I decide how to proceed I would like to know if I am the only one having this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 1, 2010 Posted July 1, 2010 Hi SideB, Take a look here Painfully slow service.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
cocker Posted July 1, 2010 Share #2 Posted July 1, 2010 I think most Uk readers will know who you are talking about. Presumably you have his address. Drive over and get your stuff back! I wouldn't leave a £400.00 lens with someone for 5 years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 1, 2010 Share #3 Posted July 1, 2010 Ouch. And I thought two or three years getting stuff fixed by solms was over the top. At least you arent the better part of two grand out of pocket. Drive over like Keith says. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideB Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted July 1, 2010 Not necessarily that simple... it's a long way from where I live and my suspicion is he may have mislaid the lens because I can't think of any other reason why he hasn't returned it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2010 Share #5 Posted July 1, 2010 Even more reason to talk to him face to face, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 1, 2010 Share #6 Posted July 1, 2010 I'm afraid I'm in the same position. The gentleman in question is a remarkably knowledgeable and interesting character, and we also have long and engaging (international) telephone conversations about this and that lens or camera. But as regards my own lens conversion, there's never any progress after a year and a half. It's a bit sad, but I'm confident he'll do a good and conscientious job when he one day gets around to it. I think he's probably been snowed-under since M-digital: the demand for CLAs on older lenses must've shot through the roof. (Incidentally, Jaap helped me out with some missing pieces that may be the key to finally getting the conversion done - so never give up hope!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 1, 2010 Share #7 Posted July 1, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Stop making friends, start behaving like a customer. People amaze me sometimes. This is a business transaction, pure and simple. You expect a service, it has not been provided. End of story. The scenario you are describing is unreasonable, but you are frankly culpable for not forcing the issue for five years - five years! Good grief. Stop accepting excuses. Stop allowing yourself to be fobbed off. You know it makes sense. I hope that some of those facing redundancy from MK are reading this - there is a clear market for their skills, wrapped by a modicum of business nous. If those servicing this market now behave like this they deserve competition. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted July 1, 2010 Share #8 Posted July 1, 2010 Not necessarily that simple... it's a long way from where I live and my suspicion is he may have mislaid the lens because I can't think of any other reason why he hasn't returned it. In that case he owes you £400.00. Collect it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 1, 2010 Share #9 Posted July 1, 2010 I think people are being a little harsh. No need to get angry or demand payment - I'd simply ask him straight out whether he's lost the lens, or any other mishap has befallen it. I'm sure you can come to some reasonable agreement if anything like that has happened. My personal impression is that he's very busy, and has had difficulty keeping-up with demand. Now of course I'd rather he'd warned me before agreeing to take on my job, but it's hardly like being without running water or electricity - most of us can survive a while without a particular lens, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 1, 2010 Share #10 Posted July 1, 2010 It's not about being angry or demanding; quite the contrary. It is about being businesslike, on both sides. Reasonableness, clarity and commitment are at the heart of this whole thing. This is a commercial transaction not a tea party. I for one clearly differentiate. If you are wooly about what you want by when, if you accept delays with a shrug, if you accept poor service, you get what you deserve - it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 1, 2010 Share #11 Posted July 1, 2010 It's not about being angry or demanding; quite the contrary. It is about being businesslike, on both sides. Reasonableness, clarity and commitment are at the heart of this whole thing. This is a commercial transaction not a tea party. I for one clearly differentiate. If you are wooly about what you want by when, if you accept delays with a shrug, if you accept poor service, you get what you deserve - it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh well, I'm sure you're right Bill. But in my case, I don't feel like treating this transaction like I would if I were talking to my cellphone operator or bank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideB Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted July 1, 2010 The situation is very clear as far as I am concerned: I have asked him umpteen times to return the lens and he has not done so. The question now is what I do about it. We are not dealing with a commercial enterprise so much as a character from an earlie age beofre the internet when communications were conducted by telephone or hand-written note. This isn't Marks and Spencer, this is Savill Row and as you will know the more you pay, the slower the service. I could go down the route of sending legal letters or I could just accept that he will return the lens, and my viewfinder, if and when he gets around to it. Or, as a couple of people have suggested, I could pay him a visit. The latter is my inclination at the moment because if he opens the door I am sure it would be a fascinating experience and certainly worth the time involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 1, 2010 Share #13 Posted July 1, 2010 If it's a long way from where you are, make a weekend of it. The question is, do you call him first to let him know you're coming. What if you've driven 200 miles (say) and he's not it, for a genuine reason? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 1, 2010 Share #14 Posted July 1, 2010 Perhaps I am not being clear. There is no need to be rude. There is no need to lose your temper. There is no need to do anything other than be civil and polite. Business is business. A Saville Row suit takes time because it is handmade. But a commitment is made and kept to. I have never had to wait five years for a suit! I don't care whether I am dealing with a newspaper vendor or Dawkins Almighty. It is a business matter. I have reasonable expectations of a transaction being completed to my satisfaction within a reasonable time-frame. Separate your awe and admiration for the man from the fact that he has let you down. Ask, clearly and unequivocally, in writing, for your lens to be returned within seven days. No excuses, no chit-chat. Send your letter recorded delivery. If he fails to return your lens exercise your rights as a consumer. Stop being a doormat!! Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 1, 2010 Share #15 Posted July 1, 2010 I think we all know who you are talking about and whilst I haven't used his service personally I've only heard good things about him, albeit that one shouldn't send stuff to him if urgency is part of the equation. That said, 5 years!!!! people get less for murder! Would you happily wait 5 years for your Saville Row suit too? What if you had put weight on or lost weight from the fitting stage Yes 'bespoke' services, craftsmen etc., take time but as Bill has said you have entered into a business transaction at the end of the day. Your options are quite clear. Call, explain that you are ever so sorry to trouble him but that you really would like your property back and arrange a time to vist and collect it - or just turn up on spec. (but risky for 1 man business if he's out on that day). Write a letter - as above that you would like your property returned within say 28 days, and that otherwise you will have to take further steps to protect yourself against a possible loss. If no response issue a small claims summons for the cost of the items in question. Final option, be happy to accept that he's 'not a business' and forget about it. (typed as Bill posted his response) Further thought - I wonder if the taxman is also so forgiving, and I wonder if said individual is also so lax with them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 1, 2010 Share #16 Posted July 1, 2010 Final option, be happy to accept that he's 'not a business' and forget about it. What is he, if he's not a business? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 1, 2010 Share #17 Posted July 1, 2010 Andy, the OP says "We are not dealing with a commercial enterprise " - he's clearly to be treated more like a dear friend who is doing you a massive favour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted July 1, 2010 Share #18 Posted July 1, 2010 I think you may find that the problem lies not with him, but the delivery/non-delivery of parts from Germany. I have just been on the phone myself to the person I believe you're referring to. I'm waiting for a repair to my M6TTL. He has been waiting 3 months for a small part from Solms (via MK) and it hasn't arrived despite repeated phone calls to MK. MK can't do any more, other than hassle Solms. If you're looking for a new front element from Solms, then you may have to wait a long time. remember some of the glass they use is often allowed to cool and settle for a number of years before it's cut. Lens elements are often made in batches, so the wait may be quite long. Some of us have been waiting 2 years for DMR batteries to be remade and they're made of plastic! I had a problem earlier this year with a loose front hood/barrel on my 28-90 asph. It was back fixed within 2 weeks (inc shipping) from the same person. That repair only cost me £35 inc carriage! Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 1, 2010 Share #19 Posted July 1, 2010 Seeing as how the rest of us think we know who is being discussed, that may well be the case. It doesn't matter how friendly, charming or chatty said individual is. If someone takes in washing, he's in business. If he doesn't return it clean, or at all, then he's failed a customer and needs to do something about it. It's exactly the same with someone who services cameras or lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideB Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share #20 Posted July 1, 2010 I am not concerned about the length of time he has had the lens. I understood that he was commissioning some special glass and it was going to take some time. Unfortunately the project fell through because the glass manufacturer was unable to meet the specifications required. What bothers me is his failure to return the lens since I first requested it back in January, a request repeated on a regular basis since. Getting angry would not be productive as I still have a lot of respect for his work and would happily use his services again (though not if he doesn;t send my lens back). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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