My thoughts on the M9 and other cameras

[Viv]

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Not sure what conclusion to draw. The camera does not matter to any half-competent photographer, and he can use any camera to produce good images. You, on the other hand, feel the need for two expensive cameras.

 

It's not because of need. It's a matter of ease of use.

[erl]

Everything does matter. The problem is to control everything. That is where talent becomes paramount.

[Viv]

Everything does matter. The problem is to control everything. That is where talent becomes paramount.

 

Indeed. We are essentially saying the same thing.

 

With my ancient Bronica (which I bought for 50 euro equivalent) I can produce beautiful images, but it takes too long to set up each shot.

 

The M9, on the other hand, is quick, fast and simple.

 

Horses for courses.

[biglouis]

Nick

 

As you know, through your experience and our discussions I decided to go for the Panasonic GF-1 which really should be (and maybe will be) Leica's next digital product.

 

What surprises me about your post is that you like the EP-2 so much. I would like to know the benefits of the EP-2 over the GF-1 as I am thinking of adding a second m4/3rds body for my next photographic project. Incidentally, I did buy the external electronic viewfinder for the GF-1 and I've found it very usable.

 

I should add that I have not found a great deal of advantage mounting M glass on the GF-1 over the Lumix 20/1.7 which I reckon is a summicron/lux rip-off, e.g. equally as good. I have also stopped using my M lenses for flower photography because the GF-1 with the PanaLeica 45/2.8 macro is just excellent - as you can check out if you look at my Flikr stream - or my recent postings in the nature forum.

 

LouisB

[johnwolf]

Thank you, Nick. As someone with a GF1 and considering an M9, I value your comments. I print B&W GF1 prints 12" x 16" on Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, and I'm so impressed with the quality. My concern is that M9 prints at that size will not look significantly different, especially weighed against cost. I appreciate you sharing your impressions on this point. And like you say, these little m4/3 cameras handle so well. You've served up some good food for thought. Thanks again.

 

John

[AlanG]

What surprises me about your post is that you like the EP-2 so much. I would like to know the benefits of the EP-2 over the GF-1 as I am thinking of adding a second m4/3rds body for my next photographic project. Incidentally, I did buy the external electronic viewfinder for the GF-1 and I've found it very usable.

 

 

I tested both cameras and the Olympus clip on EVF is much better. EVF quality is a high priority to me but may not be for everyone. Otherwise, there are some pluses and minuses for each camera but they are pretty close.

[AlanJW]

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There is enough of a difference in IQ for me to keep coming back to the M9 adn favoring it over every other camera I own. All personal preferences and highly subjective.

 

I don't quite see the point of this kind of post in this forum other than as a way to tell me that I am stupid for thinking the M9 is better than an Oly Ep1, and for having spent all that money. Sort of like posts in a BMW forum that a Toyota has better ergonomics and that at a stoplight a Camry out accelerated a 550i and gets better fuel mileage too. (Yawn)

 

Maybe I am stupid, but I am happy.

[Nick De Marco]

Some very good points made above, all of which I appreciate and take on board. I was dreading getting a right basting from some M9 lovers, but all the comments have been well thought out.

 

yanidel - I agree with much of what you say about wide angle, with a couple of exceptions. First I have the Panasonic 7-14mm f4 zoom. It is a very good lens indeed, although as you would expect at 7mm (14 equiv) you need to often do work in photoshop to straighten the lines. Although I don't usually like zooms, it's a most useful lens to have in a small travel pack for those situations when you want to photograph a building, for example, and it's just too big for anything else. Not fast like Leica of course, but you can get away with very slow shutter speeds on the 4/3rds cameras I find, and, I hear Panasonic are bringing out a 14,, f2.8 pancake prime which I am sure to buy.

 

Concerning focusing manual lenses - this is why I went for the ep2. I find I can focus very accurately with the new EVF which comes with it. Far better than the evf on the GF1 which I also have and is too low resolution.

 

I like the photos on your blog by the way...

 

Louis - I still love the GF1 and don't think the EP2 is better per se. For manual lenses, in camera stabilisation and and a better EVF make a good advantage - but I agree with you, it's very difficult to beat the purpose made 4/3rds lenses on a 4/3rds camera.I think I just prefer the Olympus warm-saturated colours to be honest, whilst the GF1 might be slightly more like Leica cool colours. This matters little as I shoot in raw and jpeg, but it means less editing time for me when starting with a raw file which I like from a colour temperature/saturation point of view.

 

The other advantages with the M9 people have mentioned I am sure are true, and like I said I would love to have one. But I haven't seen anyone reply to my point about battery life and the screen, both of which I think are real pains especially when you pay so much for a camera. I appreciate that everyone uses cameras in different ways, but if I have a digital and film camera with me I want to feel I can take lots of digital photos all day and see the results, whilst being more precious with my film. That's a big reason the M9 doesn't do it for me.

 

Finally, on prints, I am sure the M9 makes the most stunning prints but I have not tried. I have now given up making digital prints I find the process so infuriating and now only make my own photographic prints. But I did send off some GF1 and EP2 files to make A3 prints with, and I can assure anyone uncertain about the quality of these cameras that with the colour prints, even with the file which was 400 iso, you would not have been able to notice difference in quality from a print the same size from my 5D II. That's why the 4/3rds cameras are good enough for my use of them.

[Ecaton]

Surprised about you mentioning the "short battery life of the M9". I happen to have both, a M9 as well as an EP2, one with 3, the other with 2 batteries. Each and every M9 battery beats any of the EP2 batteries as far a "life" is concerned.

[Ecaton]

Nick

 

As you know, through your experience and our discussions I decided to go for the Panasonic GF-1 which really should be (and maybe will be) Leica's next digital product.

 

What surprises me about your post is that you like the EP-2 so much. I would like to know the benefits of the EP-2 over the GF-1 as I am thinking of adding a second m4/3rds body for my next photographic project. Incidentally, I did buy the external electronic viewfinder for the GF-1 and I've found it very usable.

 

I should add that I have not found a great deal of advantage mounting M glass on the GF-1 over the Lumix 20/1.7 which I reckon is a summicron/lux rip-off, e.g. equally as good. I have also stopped using my M lenses for flower photography because the GF-1 with the PanaLeica 45/2.8 macro is just excellent - as you can check out if you look at my Flikr stream - or my recent postings in the nature forum.

 

LouisB

 

Superior EVF, in body IS, ie great for legacy lenses, more accurate WB. GF1, advantage AF speed and menu system. Had the GF1, sold it for the EP2 and never looked back.

[Nick De Marco]

Ecaton - I agree with you on the plus and minus of GF1 and EP2

I am very surprised on battery life to hear you say that - maybe I had a couple of bad batteries with the M9 I tested. Is the M9 battery much improved from the M8 (which I found ran out too quick)?

 

The only other thing I can think of is that you used the EVF on the EP2 a lot - this does drain the battery much quicker

[kkochheiser]

Nick, I thought I'd chime in with my battery life experience with the M9. I can usually go a whole day and most of a 16 GB card on one battery shooting raw+jpeg. How do you have yours set? I use auto off at one minute and the (poor) LCD set to off. I rarely chimp and only check the histogram occasionally. With these settings I have no problem with shooting speed either. Maybe just my shooting style too?

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kent

[schnapshot]

How many clubs do one need to play golf?

Funny question?

 

Well: which camera would you choose for:

- sports?

- weddings?

- street?

- studio?

- casual?

- macro?

- backpacking?

- ....

 

Obviously there ares different systems, which perform better in different situations.

 

My conclusion:

As there is no pocketable FF with AF Noctilux 12-200 , ISO 102400 available on the market, I "need" different tools for different jobs.

 

- M9 (image qualtity & prime lens in wide + normal)

- DSLR (AF, 70-200, 2.8, flash)

- D-Lux 4 (2.0, tiny)

 

To answer my question:

I have more than one club in my golf bag....

Driver, putter, sand wedge ....

[schnapshot]

I can usually go a whole day

- with my leica M9 from 2010 I can shoot a day

- with my Fuji F30 from 2006 I can shoot weeks

 

The battery of the M9 (my newest camera) is worst than all my older cameras.

I like my M9 but the battery life is really not the reason to get a leica....

 

It is okay in most situations. But I guy wrote taking pictures of polars lights is not nice with the m9. You can take pictures for 15 Minutes (!) -> Metall body and low battery life is not an advantage in some situations.

[Guest AgXlove]

Even though I would love to have an M9, I decided that the truth was, even if someone gave me one, if I went on a 2 week trip abroad I would probably not take the M9.

 

On the other hand, if I was to give up film alltogether and only use digital, maybe I would only ever take the M9 with me - so this is not an anti-M9 rant.Nick

 

So - are you saying that the M9 is unreliable (not trying to start a fight, just asking)?

 

I read somewhere on the www (and now I'm regretting not keeping track of the url) that according to the commentator, the M9 is not up to speed for professional use - of course, commentary on the www is worth almost what you pay for it.

 

I find that hard to believe, as I know one Magnum shooter who has run an M8 hard in professional use - and the M9 is a great stride forward over the M8 and 8.2.

 

I'd like to have an M9 too, but $7 large US is quite a commitment. If I were going on a two week trip abroad, I'd back it up with my MP and a few bricks of film. YMMV.

[jaapv]

I have a suspicion you had a new battery. They need a number of charges to get to full capacity. Normally I get about 400 shots.

[charlesphoto99]

Note on battery life: if you leave the default of never off it will drain quickly. Set auto off to one or three minutes and you will get much more extended life.

 

I have a brand new GF-1 sitting in a drawer downstairs, probably soon to be sold at a loss. Got swept up in the excitement over this camera but honestly in use I just don't get it. Not much more compact than my M9, definitely not as robust feeling, fiddly manual controls,, 2X crop, etc etc. In the end I just pick up my M9 with a 35 and throw it over the shoulder and it does everything you need to, except for flash - though superior high iso makes up for that at times, and close up.

 

Now if only we could get something similar that actually fits in a pocket - still waiting for a version of an Olympus XA or Contax T2/3. Optical viewfinder, no matter how rudimentary, please, and some ol' skool dial controls.

[erl]

Further comment on the M9 battery life. The last time I shot a wedding (maybe 2 years ago, with M8) I needed to change battery once in about 5+ hours. Probably about 1000 pics, can't remember exactly now. Earlier this year I took the M9, M8 and M7 to Antarctica. I expected temperature trouble, but it came not in the form I expected. First of all, the M8/9 batteries really surprised me. I never had to change batts more than once in a day. Many times never. What I did find a real pain was changing film in 'Neptunes Window' (Deception Bay) on the M7 with two pairs of gloves on (another story here). Removing the gloves to open the camera base was risky.

 

The point is, changing the occasional battery is far easier than frequent film changes (in case no one remembers ). Because other cameras have better battery life is not really an issue. The issue is, if you have an M8/9, does the M8/9 battery life fit your M.O?

[diogenis]

Nick, on battery life as asked:

 

The M8/9 should win on battery life as well, because of this amazing optical viewfinder (which many want to substitute for an evf... yea Alan?)

So, unless you do something very wrong, like leaving the back LCD on and not letting it auto switch off battery will hold.

The other cameras rely heavily on electronics, have better but bigger LCD screens which means even more consumption. Add evfs, image/sensor stabilizers and these drain battery even more.

But there is also a matter of battery capacity for both. But really it's a non issue, you can simply buy another battery and this will last you the day for sure. After 2-3 charging cycles those packs give their best, they shouldn't be a problem.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[biglouis]

Ecaton/Nick, I actually had no idea that the EP-2 had in-body stabilisation. I was thinking of getting a second m4/3rds body and I think I might get one of these!

 

LouisB