Will Leica ever embrace the digital age?

[Gover]

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After 40+ years of M and R ownership I followed Leica into the digital age. I bought a DMR for my R8, the DMR did not couple, the DMR then failed through control dials falling off. I bought a R9 it locked up repeatedly. Three trips to Solms and it still did not work reliably. I missed assignments, weddings, and holidays. The system spent more time at Solms than being used! I had over £12,000 of lenses and the R line was scrapped! Huge losses with their disposal.

 

I bought a M8 fine it worked well but I was looking forward to full frame. I waited, waited and waited for my M9 and traded in my M8. After less than 50 shots my new M9 does not recognise that I have an SD card in the camera. I am still awaiting another M ( pre-paid for 6 months ago with a top London dealer) so do not have the necessary spare body. The card reader unit has failed.

 

I have an important 6 week photo assignment across Europe. Plenty of M lenses and no body and no spare body as yet. Leica dealer - no loan camera, Leica Milton Keynes - no loan camera. Leica Germany offer to repair - no loan camera but repair too late for assignment

 

This severely strains my relationship to the brand. My son also a pro uses Canon - never any problems - consistent good results but in MHO within restriction of the glass.

 

I wonder if Leica ever considered a proper service for pros with the M9.

 

I have no intention of ever putting my trust in the S2 with the digital failures experienced to date. The S2 requires such considerable investment and with such poor backup for those of us that prefer or need a rangefinder system, I have no inclination to spent the considerable investment required.

 

The Taxman would never believe the money lost to date with technocrap digital Leica equipment to date and the losses with the lenses. The income stream continues not to improve.

 

Perhaps the brand is now just eye candy for the well healed amateur and collector and is no longer serious equipment for the workers.

 

Please follow this thread and list any reliability factors of the M9 so that users of this forum have a better idea about this. Perhaps I have just been unlucky but now is the time to address this issue of reliability.

 

 

Gover

[250swb]

Perhaps the brand is now just eye candy for the well healed amateur and collector and is no longer serious equipment for the workers.

 

Gover

 

Well I resent being pigeon holed like that even if I am no longer a professional photographer.

 

 

 

Steve

[Viv]

My M9 is fault-free. Works perfectly.

 

So I am well-healed (perhaps also well-heeled ...).

[adan]

While I have not had any problems with my M9, I do agree that Leica still has a great deal to learn (or re-learn) about Pro service. While those still waiting for one camera or another may see "production" as Leica's weak link today - I would say that long-term, "service and repair" is a far bigger problem they need to solve.

 

CEO Rudy Spiller comes out of that side of the business (he ran Zeiss's service program) so I'd expected more improvement in that line under his leadership - OTOH he has been on the job only 14 months, and turning corporate culture around takes time.

 

We may hope that if the finances are finally in the black and now that the "rush" of the M9/S2/X1 intros may be easing, he can devote more time to this aspect of the business. The reorganization of service structure in the UK may be an early step.

 

There is a Pro Service available, but as far as I can tell so far only for the S2 - and at a price.

 

http://www.s.leica-camera.com/assets/downloads/service/TermsAndConditionsPlatinum-2.pdf

 

There is also "Fast and Express service" also for a price - in the Euro Area:

 

Leica Camera AG - Service - Fast & Express Service

 

I might note that there is a survey available at Leica's home pages on customer service, if you want your opinion to be counted formally: Leica Camera AG - Service - Customer Survey

 

Personally, I would spend the money for "Platinum Pro Service" (loaner cameras, expedited repairs, about $2,000) for my M9, if it were available. But I think even the basic warranty service could use substantial improvement. 4 weeks at a maximum. That probably requires significant investment in staff and parts availability (and no volcanoes )

 

If Leica wants to impress ME at photokina - they will skip the lens and cameras, and announce a serious upgrade and reorganization to the service program, whether centralized at Solms or distributed among the national or regional Leica distributors (or a combination of both). IMHO they can and should hold off on introducing new "toys" until they get the service upgraded.

[leicashot]

The future of Leica is in amateurs' hands as they are the main source of income for the company. If you're wanting to use any Leica on assignment, you need at least 2 bodies or take a Canon/Nikon - its the way of modern Leica and it ain't gonna change. The days of the trusty mechanical M are well behind us now.

 

I guaranteed more doctors/dentists/lawyers and business men own more M9's that any Pros and if they have an issue, they just buy another while one is in for repair. The company will continue without support for Pros, like it or not - of course, I don't, but its the way it is, sadly.

[Fotomiguel]

A have a friend who works with nikon as a wedding photographer. If you listen his history you coudn't belive it. An incredible nightmare. After three nikon D3 he is now in court with Lawsuits.

I have my M8 and my M9 with no problems and I'm totally happy. I had a problem with my M9 with the cracked sensor and my dealer replaced it in one week.

[gjames9142]

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I make my living as a photographer and got an M9 two or three months ago. The second day, the card reader went down. It was sent back to Germany, but my dealer got me a loaner. When the camera came back, the frame preview lever fell off without me even noticing. One morning it simply wasn't there. A part was sent up to Toronto, and my dealer took it to the local Leica agency. Same day service -- although I have to say that I have never used the preview lever, which is a placebo for beginners. Film is still my main medium. Any changeover to digital will be long and slow. Luckily I don't have to commercial work, so there are no clients to be pleased. Only myself, and those who buy the prints.

 

Geoffrey James

[johnbuckley]

Oh boy, here we go again. The sniffing at amateurs who actually care enough about photography to use a Leica, even though their livelihood is derived elsewhere.

 

Mr. Gover, I'm sorry about your bad luck with your M9. Genuinely. And it must be a complete nightmare to have a non-functioning camera when you have a work assignment. You would probably get more sympathy without the gratuitous "are Leica's just eye candy for the well healed (sic) amateur" trope. It is a fact that there are more amateurs than professional photographers extant, and pretty likely there are more amateurs than pros using Leica cameras in 2010 -- for a host of reasons, one of them being the versatility and dependability of Nikons and Canons. Here's wishing you the best of luck in getting your equipment on track and out on the job. But the shot at amateurs using Leicas is a big bore.

[leicashot]

A have a friend who works with nikon as a wedding photographer. If you listen his history you coudn't belive it. An incredible nightmare. After three nikon D3 he is now in court with Lawsuits.

I have my M8 and my M9 with no problems and I'm totally happy. I had a problem with my M9 with the cracked sensor and my dealer replaced it in one week.

 

I understand that things can go wrong with all sorts of camera, but I shoot with D3's every day and I would bet my life on them rather than a Leica digital every time. My previous M8's had a mind of their own. They'd do all kinds of weird stuff electronically, especially with continuous shooting - it just kept on shooting till i took out the battery every now and then.

 

Also because the M9 isn't weather sealed it makes it very unstable in certain difficult environments

[bybrett]

Perhaps the brand is now just eye candy for the well healed amateur and collector and is no longer serious equipment for the workers. Gover

 

Are you suggesting that the problems you are complaining about should be accepted by the well healed (sic) amateur and collector?

[dseelig]

Leica is embracing the digital age, but for pros it is a rough go and I understand the original poster problems. For me Leica is M's are the way I want to shoot though I have canons- pro sports- concerts, with the improved high iso with lightroom and cs 5 this is now my camera of choice. I got myself a second m9 sacraficing my mate and my 1ds mk111 it was a hard choice to sell my ids mk111 but for my personal work it was what I had to do. The mate easier to swallow as the quality is not quite up there with there prime lenses. The problem is until Leica recognizes pro very readily and supplies a body asap when a body goes down it is hard. To me the answer is a cheaper body made in Japan or China or Korea wherever. I know that is heresy for some of you.

[leicashot]

Are you suggesting that the problems you are complaining about should be accepted by the well healed (sic) amateur and collector?

 

I don't believe he is saying that but for us working professionals relying on this equipment to function on jobs where our income depends on it, the reliability for us could mean the difference between paying the mortgage or not. When under this kind of pressure, professionals need to be confident that their equipment is going to perform, especially at such a premium price.

 

Sure, it should work the same for everyone, and Leica's service should improve for everyone's benefit

[AlanJW]

I don't understand why a legitimate complaint about a camera not working has to be embellished with snide remarks about those of us who are amateurs.

 

Some pros seem to be able to get replacements. Perhaps that is a function of how one asks and may involve some people skills rather than photographic skills

 

Regardless, anyone paying $7000 for a camera is entitled to have it work or have it fixed promptly.

[jaapv]

Is the complaint legitimate?

 

From the Leica website:

 

Professional Service:

 

We offer additional advantages to professional photographers as for example a very quick service or material loan during repair. To obtain information and apply to this service, please contact:

 

Address:

Leica Camera AG

Leica Customer Service - Profi Service

Solmser Gewerbepark 8

35606 Solms

 

 

It seems the OP neglected to register as a pro if he has to wonder if such a service exists....

 

Quite apart from that, the M9 is >for all customers< fast-tracked by CS Solms with a turnaround of five working days, provided it is sent to Solms directly. Of course, if they have to wait for a spare part, it may happen that it takes a few days more, but this is rare.

[hoppyman]

Your camera needs to go to Solms, clearly, whether available for your next trip or otherwise. Your post says that Leica Camera have offered to fix it already.

As shown in reports in this forum, any faulty M9 is being fixed as quickly as possible within about one week in Germany. The strong demand exceeding supply means that your dealer is unable to swap the camera (if brand new) on the spot presumably.

 

Perhaps you could obtain an M8 on loan from your dealer in the meantime.

 

With the urgency that you have reported you need a solution in less than 7-10 days?

 

If it were possible to visit Solms personally with your camera you may find that they can turn it around more quickly still. Six weeks on the continent; it might be worth investigating if you can include Solms in your itinerary. You might send them your camera now anyway and arrange to collect it personally or sent to an agreed location as another option?

 

My M8 was upgraded for next business day and I was given a loan camera to use over the weekend until mine was completed.

 

For your reliability report, I have had no issues with M6, M7, M8 and now M9.

[leicashot]

I don't understand why a legitimate complaint about a camera not working has to be embellished with snide remarks about those of us who are amateurs.

 

Some pros seem to be able to get replacements. Perhaps that is a function of how one asks and may involve some people skills rather than photographic skills

 

Regardless, anyone paying $7000 for a camera is entitled to have it work or have it fixed promptly.

 

They weren't snide remarks (at least mine weren't). Only highlighting the fact that Leica's majority of customers come under the 'amateur' banner with only a small % or pros and most importantly a small number of pros (especially compared to Canon/Nikon) and thus the service standards reflect this, regardless of the cost of the camera, unfortunately.

[wildlightphoto]

... Mr. Gover, I'm sorry about your bad luck with your M9. Genuinely. And it must be a complete nightmare to have a non-functioning camera when you have a work assignment. You would probably get more sympathy without the gratuitous "are Leica's just eye candy for the well healed (sic) amateur" trope...

 

I agree with this. FWIW it seems I've wasted my money on a backup R8/DMR because the problems I've had with first one have all been caused by the nut behind the viewfinder, and easily resolved. Clearly this is not the case for the OP, but his unfortunate experience is not universal.

 

There is not one of the well-known brands that is used more by pros than by amateurs. For the camera makers, amateurs are where the money is simply because there are so many more of us.

[bybrett]

They weren't snide remarks (at least mine weren't). Only highlighting the fact that Leica's majority of customers come under the 'amateur' banner with only a small % or pros and most importantly a small number of pros (especially compared to Canon/Nikon) and thus the service standards reflect this, regardless of the cost of the camera, unfortunately.

 

Eye candy for the well healed (sic) amateur....? Not snide?

The OP may have a point but the sentiment is lost by including careless remarks.

[swamiji]

If I turned Pro... The first thing I would do is buy a second body. This is true no matter what brand my primary body was. I could not risk the alternative, the loss of a income.

 

It sounds like poor business practice to me.

 

True, Leica does need to improve it's service, but I could not afford to depend on others to provide me a backup. My income is too important. This issue sounds more like bad planning.

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[jaapv]

But I do find the DMR appears to be far more stable with an R8 than it ever was with the R9, at least in my case.

 

I agree with this. FWIW it seems I've wasted my money on a backup R8/DMR because the problems I've had with first one have all been caused by the nut behind the viewfinder, and easily resolved. Clearly this is not the case for the OP, but his unfortunate experience is not universal.