vertekijker Posted June 2, 2010 Share #1 Posted June 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) At the risk of sounding ridiculous... I normally shoot with my M9 and the 28 asph. Cron, or 24 asph. Elmarit, or 35 Summarit. Today I decided to use for a change my old 28 asph. Elmarit which I bought when the M8 came out, but have used little since. As I took some pictures with it, I noticed that it sounded a bit louder than when I use my other lenses. As a piano player I am well aware of tonal changes in my piano, which is why I perhaps notice such little differences in sound. Is this possible? I imagine that because lenses are constructed differently, that some lenses allow for more generation of sound inside the camera than others do. As rear elements protrude farther inside or less, the sound chamber inside the camera is increased or decreased, it would appear. Or the construction inside the lens might be the cause of a louder sound because of it being more compact or containing a wider separation between lens elements. Curious to get members' take on this. Anyway, as a result of today's experience I'm switching back to my 28 cron and 35 summarit when I need to go unnoticed. I look forward to your reactions. -------------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 Hi vertekijker, Take a look here 'Lens sound'?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted June 2, 2010 Share #2 Posted June 2, 2010 Frans - As you began to describe the situation I assumed the louder noise was as you speculate -- less isolation of the camera sounds by the older lenses. I've noticed differences with my current (R8) and past SLRs (Oly) with different lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted June 3, 2010 Share #3 Posted June 3, 2010 At the risk of sounding ridiculous... I normally shoot with my M9 and the 28 asph. Cron, or 24 asph. Elmarit, or 35 Summarit. Today I decided to use for a change my old 28 asph. Elmarit which I bought when the M8 came out, but have used little since. As I took some pictures with it, I noticed that it sounded a bit louder than when I use my other lenses. As a piano player I am well aware of tonal changes in my piano, which is why I perhaps notice such little differences in sound. Is this possible? I imagine that because lenses are constructed differently, that some lenses allow for more generation of sound inside the camera than others do. As rear elements protrude farther inside or less, the sound chamber inside the camera is increased or decreased, it would appear. Or the construction inside the lens might be the cause of a louder sound because of it being more compact or containing a wider separation between lens elements.Curious to get members' take on this. Anyway, as a result of today's experience I'm switching back to my 28 cron and 35 summarit when I need to go unnoticed. I look forward to your reactions. -------------------- Frans You arouse my curiosity (as a recorded music reviewer!). So I tried the fairly heavy 50 Summilux then the ultralight v4 35 Summicron, both at 1/125 in a quiet room after midnight (ie no external ambient noise), and the sounds are quite different: the greater mass damping the shutter sound, the v4 light and 'tinny'. So there you are...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted June 3, 2010 Share #4 Posted June 3, 2010 All different Leica lenses I tried so far, sound different. From the lenses, I own, the 50 Lux ASPH being the most muted sound with a rather soft and light click, the 90 Cron pre ASPH, being the most substantial in sound and click. As I tried different copies of the same lens, before buying, I found differences between samples rather small on this one though. I remember reading some time ago a claim of Ken Rockwell, that all Leica lenses do feel the same and how important is was for a lens manufacturer, to get the feel of manual lenses similar (focus, aperture) and can not understand this - they indeed feel very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #5 Posted June 3, 2010 You arouse my curiosity (as a recorded music reviewer!). So I tried the fairly heavy 50 Summilux then the ultralight v4 35 Summicron, both at 1/125 in a quiet room after midnight (ie no external ambient noise), and the sounds are quite different: the greater mass damping the shutter sound, the v4 light and 'tinny'. So there you are...... Thanks for the confirmation, Microview. Glad I'm not alone in 'hearing things'... -------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted June 3, 2010 All different Leica lenses I tried so far, sound different.From the lenses, I own, the 50 Lux ASPH being the most muted sound with a rather soft and light click, the 90 Cron pre ASPH, being the most substantial in sound and click. As I tried different copies of the same lens, before buying, I found differences between samples rather small on this one though. I remember reading some time ago a claim of Ken Rockwell, that all Leica lenses do feel the same and how important is was for a lens manufacturer, to get the feel of manual lenses similar (focus, aperture) and can not understand this - they indeed feel very different. I have not tried different copies of the same lens yet. Amazing that even in that case small differences would exist. Thank you. ------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 3, 2010 Share #7 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you had enough different lenses all in a room at the same time, you could play "Ode to Joy" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 3, 2010 Share #8 Posted June 3, 2010 Happy to know you are a piano player, Frans !!! Here's how the the 21 Asph distorces a little the sound of my Hoffmann... [ATTACH]205717[/ATTACH] (see another thread about... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/127014-35mm-distortion-2-a-2.html#post1345197) Seriously speaking, me too notice the difference in sound when you have different lenses... I think it's related to the different masses which play surely a role in vibrations / sound absorbtion etc... ; probably, also the distance shutter - back lens element plays a role about perceived sound frequencies. With "new" lenses, I feel it clearly, for instance, withSummicron 35 asph vs. Elmarit-M 90; with old lenses (and old M cameras too) a good example was Summaron 28 vs. Summarex 85... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted June 3, 2010 Share #9 Posted June 3, 2010 We should start a new game in the forum: "Hear the lens!" Everybody can publish a sound file, the others have to find out which lens it is. Beginners just have to name the lens on a given body, advanced members have to guess the combination between lens and body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted June 3, 2010 Share #10 Posted June 3, 2010 Never given a thought to this.... Will try it this evening when it´s quiet here. Suppose one can tune the lens by turning the focussing ring (changes the enclosed air volume). Room for experiment. How about forming a Barnack Memorial Orchestra? Just got a Luigi strap to replace the original one; wonder if I can hear that. too.....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 3, 2010 Share #11 Posted June 3, 2010 Never given a thought to this.... Will try it this evening when it´s quiet here. Suppose one can tune the lens by turning the focussing ring (changes the enclosed air volume). Room for experiment. How about forming a Barnack Memorial Orchestra? Just got a Luigi strap to replace the original one; wonder if I can hear that. too.....?[/quote] By sure, they have a pair of large rings : room to attach a pair of little bells... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted June 3, 2010 If you had enough different lenses all in a room at the same time, you could play "Ode to Joy" Can I be invited? ---------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted June 3, 2010 Happy to know you are a piano player, Frans !!! Here's how the the 21 Asph distorces a little the sound of my Hoffmann... [ATTACH]205717[/ATTACH] (see another thread about... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/127014-35mm-distortion-2-a-2.html#post1345197) Seriously speaking, me too notice the difference in sound when you have different lenses... I think it's related to the different masses which play surely a role in vibrations / sound absorbtion etc... ; probably, also the distance shutter - back lens element plays a role about perceived sound frequencies. With "new" lenses, I feel it clearly, for instance, withSummicron 35 asph vs. Elmarit-M 90; with old lenses (and old M cameras too) a good example was Summaron 28 vs. Summarex 85... You play all the good stuff, I notice. I personally would add a little Bach as well. The 'Well-Tempered Klavier' is a daily favorite. But on the topic at hand, I am glad that you have noticed the same phneomenon. You too 'resonate' with this topc, Luigi. Cheers! ------------ Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted June 3, 2010 We should start a new game in the forum: "Hear the lens!" Everybody can publish a sound file, the others have to find out which lens it is. Beginners just have to name the lens on a given body, advanced members have to guess the combination between lens and body. I think it would be difficult, Uliwer, but I'm sure it can be done! Glad you resonate as well with this topic, Per. --------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 3, 2010 Share #15 Posted June 3, 2010 You play all the good stuff, I notice. I personally would add a little Bach as well. The 'Well-Tempered Klavier' is a daily favorite.But on the topic at hand, I am glad that you have noticed the same phneomenon. You too 'resonate' with this topc, Luigi. Cheers! ------------ Frans Vol. 1 and 2 of Wohltemperierte Klavier are regularly on the left side of the top... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 3, 2010 Share #16 Posted June 3, 2010 FWIW-- "Sound design" is a growing technical field and business. There's a 4-minute video (German language) in the "Video des Tages" section at the bottom of the page at Start | Deutsche Welle. Under the "Mehr Videos" tab, scroll down to "Der Sound des Staubsaugers." (Actually, despite the title, most of the clip concerns getting the right sound from bottled beer.) Leica already designs lenses for small size and high optical quality. I wonder how much the price will have to rise when they start designing for sound as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertekijker Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #17 Posted June 3, 2010 FWIW--"Sound design" is a growing technical field and business. There's a 4-minute video (German language) in the "Video des Tages" section at the bottom of the page at Start | Deutsche Welle. Under the "Mehr Videos" tab, scroll down to "Der Sound des Staubsaugers." (Actually, despite the title, most of the clip concerns getting the right sound from bottled beer.) Leica already designs lenses for small size and high optical quality. I wonder how much the price will have to rise when they start designing for sound as well. Good question! You just gave them an idea... -------------- Frans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted June 4, 2010 Share #18 Posted June 4, 2010 Clearly we're due for a thread on how the acoustic response of different lenses affects image quality. Me, I'm planning to market a range of clamp-on lens hoods and focus rings with built-in dampers and resonators so people can spend thousands fine-tuning their gear. Later, there'll be models with piezo transducers and digital circuitry so we can argue over whether analogue or digital technology is best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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