glenerrolrd Posted June 3, 2010 Share #81 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sam I should have looked at your portfolio before responding. I had seen your work before . The conditions you encounter are many times more difficult than most forum members. You need little advice regarding preparation and best practices. I agree with your letter to Leica . Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Hi glenerrolrd, Take a look here Faulty M9 Returned... This is my letter to Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #82 Posted June 3, 2010 +1 to that! I think that what's happened here for me is that I felt that a strategic error had been made by the OP to put up their letter to Leica before Leica had had a chance to reply, so I went down one of the possible tracks available to me... (Terry Pratchett calls this "the wrong trouser leg of history"...). Later comments + Sam's outstandingly good photography put things in perspective - I really respect the work shown on his website. So kudos where kudos is due... AND - I still think there are ways of managing your relationship with a supplier that have better chances of working than others. Heigh ho... Better said than I could, Chris. Add my name to the sentiment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 3, 2010 Share #83 Posted June 3, 2010 I think that what's happened here for me is that I felt that a strategic error had been made by the OP to put up their letter to Leica before Leica had had a chance to reply, so I went down one of the possible tracks available to me... (Terry Pratchett calls this "the wrong trouser leg of history"...). Later comments + Sam's outstandingly good photography put things in perspective - I really respect the work shown on his website. So kudos where kudos is due... AND - I still think there are ways of managing your relationship with a supplier that have better chances of working than others. Heigh ho... +1. We have had too many "ready - fire - aim" threads here, particularly back in the days of the M8. I fell into the trap of judging on face value. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 3, 2010 Share #84 Posted June 3, 2010 I'd agree with that. Regards, Bill +1 And I hope Leica sorts this out for Sam quickly and efficiently! We all certainly want him to remain a member of our family! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 3, 2010 Share #85 Posted June 3, 2010 My experience is that there is something strange with the M9 and SD (SDHC) cards. When I acquired my M9 I also bought a 4gb SDHC by Pretec. On the card is written SDHC class 6. The dealer assured me this card would work. First 20 shots or so with the camera I realised that it was not writing them all to the camera, and these were not shot in quick succession. I played with the card for a while and then went back to my 2gb Sandisk ultra IIs which I had used with the M8. No problems with these and I'm still using them. Then came the M9 FW update but still the Pretec card did not work consistently. I've also noticed that writing to the 2gb sandisks is very quick (2-3 seconds/compressed dng) and the red light flashes very quick. With the pretec card it takes an age (13 seconds) and the red light flashes more slowly. I thought a class 6 card was fast, am I wrong? So I have 4 fast working 2gb sandisk ultra IIs and I'm wondering whether to buy a 4gb Sandisk Ultra II. WRT the OP, I understand his frustration and dont have a problem his posting his letter to Leica here. Although Leica understandably say they cant test every SD card out there I do feel they need to do a little bit more work in this area so that we can buy with confidence the cards they reccommend. But maybe there actually is something amiss with some M9s? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #86 Posted June 3, 2010 Two sides - the SD manufactures don't adhere to the official standard very well, so a camera to exct specs will have huge problems. So the camera maker will have to "loosen" the software protocol. But cannot test compatability to each and every brand.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 3, 2010 Share #87 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) HI Sam I will post what the response is from Leica... The camera should be in Germany tomorrow. Wonderful website. I hope you get a quick and satisfactory response - my personal feeling is that their response time has improved a great deal since the early days of the M9 - Of course, one could argue that a response time shouldn't be required in that nothing should go wrong, but a speedy response and a fixed camera is certainly the next best thing. Good Luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 3, 2010 Share #88 Posted June 3, 2010 Sam, having seen your website and the work that you have been doing I would have thought Leica should be very keen indeed to look after you. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peapodesque Posted June 3, 2010 Share #89 Posted June 3, 2010 What I "don't get" is the aggression. The OP may have been guilty of bad manners in posting his grievance here before waiting for Leica's response, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a matter for him. I didn't really think anything other than the thread title was particularly inflammatory or overblown. Like it or not, the internet gives people the chance to blow off steam about faulty products or poor service. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here - I don't know - but I certainly don't like the way a vocal minority on this forum always endeavor to drown any bad news in mild ridicule or outright bullying. As for Leica not having the ability to answer back - well with their advertising budget, blogs, magazines, PR-events, website, YouTube videos and articulate range of dealers, I think they can look after themselves just fine. They don't really need the usual suspects on the forum being their policemen. HERE HERE!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 3, 2010 Share #90 Posted June 3, 2010 HERE HERE!!!! Between you and me I think everybody now wants to be Snapper UK's best pal now they have seen his portfolio (and quite rightly). Being star struck clearly overides the traditional newbie toasting, so all's well that end's well. I pity the next newbie with an opinion though, there's going to be a lot of pent up indignation. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 3, 2010 Share #91 Posted June 3, 2010 So I have 4 fast working 2gb sandisk ultra IIs and I'm wondering whether to buy a 4gb Sandisk Ultra II. In no way I wish to belittle the OP's problems - IMHO there is something really wrong with his M9, which is now with Leica where it should be - but here I can only say the the 4Gb Sandisk Ultra II work the best with me. The 16GB should be also good, and there were some posts advising to stay away from the 8Gb.Here are my own tribulations: I came from a M8 and, sometime in December last year, and I knew at the time care should be taken to switch the cards over to the M9. Also I did not want any numbering problems. So all my 4GB cards (6 in all) I formatted twice in my PC with FAT 32. Then formatted them twice in the M9. ( So I had my cake, payed again and ate it twice: Jaap commented something along these lines ) But no glitches afterwards, none at all!! This post is just to warn that cardproblems may be lurking somewhere where you do not expect them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 3, 2010 Share #92 Posted June 3, 2010 Between you and me I think everybody now wants to be Snapper UK's best pal now they have seen his portfolio (and quite rightly). Being star struck clearly overides the traditional newbie toasting, so all's well that end's well. I pity the next newbie with an opinion though, there's going to be a lot of pent up indignation. Steve Now now come on be fair. We did not all criticise his OP and his work shown on his website is very traditional 'Leica'. How many pro photographers doing this type of work are actually using Leica? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 3, 2010 Share #93 Posted June 3, 2010 - … but here I can only say the the 4Gb Sandisk Ultra II work the best with me. … I'm quite interested to find out how long the M9 takes to write a compressed DNG to this type of card. Could I ask you to do a quick test? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 3, 2010 Share #94 Posted June 3, 2010 I'm quite interested to find out how long the M9 takes to write a compressed DNG to this type of card. Could I ask you to do a quick test? Jeff 'bout 3 seconds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #95 Posted June 3, 2010 Between you and me I think everybody now wants to be Snapper UK's best pal now they have seen his portfolio (and quite rightly). Being star struck clearly overides the traditional newbie toasting, so all's well that end's well. I pity the next newbie with an opinion though, there's going to be a lot of pent up indignation. Steve Come on - good photography gives credibility on a photography forum - what is wrong with that? And most of the aggression ( if this is the worst we'll ever see here we can be very happy:rolleyes:) was aimed at the perceived aggressive tone of the OP - which was resolved during the thread - as it should work in a civilized forum. Basically a storm in a teacup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #96 Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah - I never did find the PRAT or yawn smileys that were in such great demand on this thread earlier. But the smiley below seems to be more appropriate to the tone of the responses now. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/122684-faulty-m9-returned-this-is-my-letter-to-leica/?do=findComment&comment=1342545'>More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted June 3, 2010 Share #97 Posted June 3, 2010 The issue that Sam presents is not unique to the M9. I had similar issues with my M8 and the frustration of not knowing if the camera would work was beyond description. As some of you know, after two attempts to repair, Leica finally replaced my M8. I have perceived in this forum a resistance to be critical of Leica but I've come to the conclusion that something is lacking in Leica's Quality Control. Issues seem to be popping up with other cameras as well such as the shabby skin problem on the X1. They did the right thing by me by replacing my camera with one that is problem free (knock on wood) but they would be way ahead of the game if they addressed their problems with QC, and did something about it. On another note, Sam's photography is some of the best I've seen in a long time. There is a definite sensitivity there, and he's got an ability to snap just at the right moment with everything in its place in a magical way. I'm glad many here admire his work because too often those who are critical of Leica are quickly dismissed as idiots with nothing better to do. Someone with his obvious talent should be in the Leica camp, and should definitely not be dismissed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 3, 2010 Share #98 Posted June 3, 2010 My first sentence was "I am very disappointed with my M9 and am returning it because it is faulty and too unreliable to be used as a professional camera". This refers to my M9, not any else's. Sorry if that was not clear enough. I would dearly love to create a relationship to my M9 similar to the one I have had with my M6s, MPs and even M8. Unfortunately my camera is not reliable enough. It don't believe all M9s are like mine, which is why I want a replacement. I don't see my SD Card problem as a design flaw, just a fault.Sam Faulkner, Photographer Sam, this is not the conclusion you make in your summation at the end of your letter. You are selectively quoting your own letter by choosing to ignore the rest of what you said and the overall sum of the letter. You made it clear that "the" M9 can't even cope with the most straight forward shoots. You said: "I have been shooting with M series cameras (M6, MP & M8) for the last fifteen years and was always happier taking a Lieca into a hostile environment than any other camera, but now I am finding that the M9 can't even cope with the most straight forward of shoots." So, maybe you can see why it made no sense to me that a professional would want another faulty and unreliable camera instead of just asking for his money back and moving on to another brand like Canon or Nikon. I still believe that posting your letter to Leica in a public forum, where you claim pretty directly that the camera isn't fit to be a professional product, before you have even received a response from Leica is akin to holding them hostage on the forum. A professional of your stature is going to garner a lot of public sympathy here and I guess that is what you were counting on. Well, you seem to be getting it now. But, that still does not abrogate the fact that you don't even know how Leica is going to address this problem. But, hey, you got to call their product too unreliable and faulty to be used as a professional camera and everyone on LUF has got the message. Good luck with Leica now. I still think your work is excellent. Now, back to discussing this known problem. I've never seen it on my camera and I use the same card zlatkob recommends, the San Disc Extreme III. My cards migrated from my M8 and I erase and almost never format. It will be interesting to see what the common denominator is for people still having this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 3, 2010 Share #99 Posted June 3, 2010 'bout 3 seconds Thanks, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2010 Share #100 Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah - I never did find the PRAT or yawn smileys that were in such great demand on this thread earlier. But the smiley below seems to be more appropriate to the tone of the responses now. A storm in a very small teacup... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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