What to buy M6 or M7?

[bussta]

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after reading this forum for many years in envy of all you Leica owners I am finally in a position to but my first M. I did post a similar post ages ago, but I am now in the position to invest in the M system, so I would like a definitive recommendation from you all.

 

I need some advise If I may as to what to purchase.

 

I borrowed a friends M8 for a while in NY, this was my first taste of using a rangefinder and I fell in love with the design and manual process of focusing & shooting it.

 

One thing that I did not like as the poor ISO noise from it, I found that anything over 640 was quite bad when shot in colour, B&W was usable though, but still a little disappointing having come from DSLR background.

 

So I have thought that perhaps I would be better investing in a used M6 or M7?, my main worry is that if I were to buy a M8.2 I would end up losing money it, potentially have more issues with it in terms of electronics etc and be stuck with a lovely designed body camera that has a mediocre sensor in it and get caught up in the whole digital megapixel race that seems to have consumed the world of digital photography, making one always want to upgrade the newest & best, M9 is ridiculiously expensive in my opinion so it is totally out of the question, and anyway what then...wanting the M10, M11 etc etc

 

I understand the drawbacks of shooting film - mainly the expense and inability to change ISO on the fly, but I think I may stand to retain more of the cameras value if I buy a film body as an investment? also by purchasing a M6 or M7 I would have one of the best camera bodies ever made and therefor not need to upgrade the body (don't fancy an MP).

 

So what film body to buy if I go down that route? I like the thought of having Aperture priority on the M7, especially as I am relatively new to M photography it would help me speed wise in concentrating on focus...or am I over estimating the advantage of having auto on the body? How quick is it to change the speed or F stop on an M6? My worry is that I would miss shots by having to keep looking at changing the shutter speed or aperture ring? I have relied on AE on my cameras and indeed used it on the M8 when I borrowed it.

 

From what I understand both bodies are identical in size? I think it's an optical illusion but I keep thinking the M6ttl is smaller but I think it's the Leica M6 branding on the front that tricks the eye to think it's smaller - I know the classic M6 is a touch smaller though.

 

I know that the M7 is battery dependent, one worry is the availability of the batteries in the future? also as it's electronic I have the same slight concern over lastability due to electronics, but is the M7 built better than the M6?, suppose you can use the M& manually as well as in A mode so it's like having an M6 with the option of AE if needed.

 

Also viewfinder, I love the images from the 35mm Summilux so would look to purchase that lens, and if I can afford later the 50mm lux, so would the .72 finder be the best bet or the .85?

 

sorry for the essay but you guys would know best

 

I look forward to reading your replies to help me being so indecisive.

 

Russ

[richam]

I have both the M7 and M6TTL, and almost always grab the M7 when I go shooting. The aperture priority frees one from having to think about and make an additional adjustment, so you can concentrate more on your subject. The cameras are the same size and use ordinary camera batteries available at most any camera store. The M6TTL uses two 357 batteries or one DL1/3N; the M7 uses four 357 or two DL1/3N. A dead battery in the M6TTL disables the meter only; in the M7 you end up restricted to 1/60 or 1/250 sec manual speeds. You can dial in up to 4 seconds exposure on the M7 and it will run up to 32 seconds in auto mode. The M6TTL goes only to 1 second. With a little practice, you can change the manual shutter speed quickly while looking through the viewfinder. F stops are on the Leica lenses and normally set visually beforehand, but can be adjusted for exposure while looking through the viewfinder at the meter. The .72 finder works best for a multitude of lenses. I would not advise any other finder unless you are sure you will be using predominantly telephoto (.85 works best) or wide angle (.58 makes the 28mm frame lines easier to see). Some eyeglass wearers swear by the .58. But unless you really have a good reason for one of the alternatives, the .72 should suit you just fine, especially for the 35mm and 50mm lenses you are thinking about.

 

Bottom line: be happy with a .72 M7.

[jsrockit]

If you can afford the M7, get the M7... if not, get the M6. You cannot go wrong. .72 is the norm. .85 is for longer lenses and .58 is for wides.

[Xmas]

I need some advise If I may as to what to purchase.

An M4-2 is cheaper then a M2, but try both before you buy.

I understand the drawbacks of shooting film - mainly the expense and inability to change ISO on the fly

Use ILFORD XP2 changing ISO on fly 200-1200 ok, more is more risky...

Set exposure at f/6.3 and 1/125, or whatever hand held meter says at beginning of day, change it at lunch time if you feel bad.

So what film body to buy if I go down that route?

400 GBP for shooter M2...

speed wise in concentrating on focus.

set the 35mm to 7 foot, don't look at rangefinder, speeds up focus pretty good

Also viewfinder, I love the images from the 35mm Summilux so would look to purchase that lens, and if I can afford later the 50mm lux, so would the .72 finder be the best bet or the .85?

If you wear specs you need the 0.72 for 35mm frame.

Wait until Leica sort out the new lux and get an old one cheap(er) when the early adapters frenzy... Get a CV 35mm f2.5 pan LTM in mean time (and LTM adapter), note you may like it - 200-250 GBP (or CV Classic). You would have to ignore it looks like a toy lens...

If you want to buy a lux try it our carefully in shop, for aperture ring, focus ring/knob and obscuration in finder, any of there can annoy, I always use both eyes even with a 0.72 finder, it is not difficult if you want to see the subject...

Noel

[budrichard]

With the same lens either camera will take exactly the same picture.

You will find exponents of both cameras.

Neither camera is better and it just depends on you to make the final decision. I certainly wouldn't worry about batteries or electronics with either camera at this point in history.

I have both and use both for different applications. Make your decision, acquire your camera and then use it. Don't agonize over the choice, you can always sell one and purchase another.-Dick

BTW, your choice of first lens is much more important than camera choice. If you have the funds, then a 35mm ASPH Lux or Chron should be your first choice, used if you can find a nice one at an attractive price.

[bussta]

Thanks All,

 

I'm heading down to my nearest Leica dealer to try both bodies out and make a decision. Will update on my outcome.

[dchalfon]

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what about a bessa r2a?

[bussta]

what about a bessa r2a?

 

For me it would feel like too much of a compromise, I understand it's significantly cheaper, but I will always want a Leica if I get a Bessa.

[tgray]

If you like the option of AE, get the M7. If you don't want that option, get the M6.

 

Make sure you can inspect or return whatever you get in case there is something wrong with it.

[cheewai_m6]

definitely m6 classic. you get the proper shutter dial, which rotates the proper way. and, less to go wrong in an m6 classic.

[earleygallery]

I'd buy the M6 as a longer term purchase, for the fully mechanical shutter. The M7 is a convenient option but the probability is that at some point the electrics will fail. You can always repair a mechanical Leica (even if the internal light meter fails you still have a working camera).

[cheewai_m6]

even if the internal light meter fails you still have a working camera.

 

like mine just did. i'm still using it though.

[Guest ccmsosse]

If you like the option of AE, get the M7. If you don't want that option, get the M6.

 

Am I mistaken or can you not use the M6TTL metering system similar to an AE system?

If you have the o< both shown you overexposed by one half stop, >o underexposed by one half stop etc ... so the M6TTL with it's metering system >o< allows for AE like adjustments.

At least that's how I am using mine - please tell me that I am not totally off?

 

I like my M6TTL as it is fully mechanical and I need to thing about the process more

I like my M7 as I am free to do both .. Auto ... or not (similar to the M9)

 

I am looking forward to my MP and then consider selling the M6TTL.

 

Cheers

[richam]

Am I mistaken or can you not use the M6TTL metering system similar to an AE system?

If you have the o< both shown you overexposed by one half stop, >o underexposed by one half stop etc ... so the M6TTL with it's metering system >o< allows for AE like adjustments.

At least that's how I am using mine - please tell me that I am not totally off?

 

Any confusion here seems to be semantic, not technical. The M7, which has Automatic Exposure (AE) capability, operates the same as the M6TTL when the M7 is in manual mode. This includes half stop adjustments as you indicated, although by definition these would not be "AE like adjustments," since the M7 is in manual mode. The only difference between the cameras in manual mode is that 2 and 4 seconds can be dialed into the M7; the M6TTL goes only to 1 second.

[batmobile]

If money is an issue I would get a M6 instead of M7 and put the rest into lenses. if you shoot colour, AE on the M7 would be handy but if shooting B&W, manual is IMHO the way to do for consistent shadow exposures. TTL is IMHO does a lot more harm than good for good B& exposures in changing and complex light.

[peter_n]

I've used both and now use neither but the M7 is preferred if you shoot slides as it has stepless exposure between the shutter speeds on the dial. Exposure can be very accurate with that body. My personal preference is to use mechanical bodies and I shoot only B&W film, but either of these two bodies will serve you well. I'd go for the M6 and spend the difference on glass.

[wattsy]

Like many, I've used both for many years (though, like Peter, I no longer use either). If you'd asked me a few years ago I would have argued that the M7 is the best shooter's camera - essentially the same as the M6 but with the addition of AE if you want it - but now I'd argue for the M6. One of my M7 bodies was a pain in the arse and went back to Solms more than once with electronic problems - and, frankly, I never really saw the point of the AE. For me, the M6/MP are the ultimate expression of the M gestalt - simply an ergonomic joy (when used with an appropriately sized lens) that is stripped of everything you don't need.

 

Incidentally, I'm not convinced by the argument that the step-less shutter of the M7 provides for more reliable slide exposure. For me film always was transparency film and I never had any difficulty exposing slides using fully mechanical M bodies.

Edited May 19, 2010 by wattsy

[jacarape]

tgray sums it up perfectly, AE is a very handy feature to have if that suits your shooting style.

 

While you don't fancy an MP, it's worth noting that an M6 has more in common with an MP then the M7.

 

As far as an M7 being better for slides then an M6/MP, if have to agree in theory only. I love shooting K64 with an MP.

[andym911]

I use both but often the M7 gets more use simply because it's faster in some situations due to the AE.

I prefer the 'feel ' of the M6 though due to is being just that bit smaller.

 

With either one you will get identical results .

 

I don't buy the battery dependant argument in favour of the M6 as, lets face it, if you carry spare film then you carry a spare battery !

It is a tough call so flipping a coin might be the best;)

 

good luck with your choice

 

andy

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[ndjambrose]

I have both. Personally I would struggle to recommend the M7.

 

There seem to be quite a number of M7's that are dogged with problems, usually meter electronics. I have been through several bodies, each one either repaired or replaced. They all failed with the same problem. I note that James and Ian both mention similar problems too.

 

The M6 is a very nice camera. Good examples are plentiful, and they're relatively cheap compared to new models. The only drawback I've experienced with mine is rangefinder white-out, which can occur when looking at high-contrast light sources in low light conditions. Not a major issue, and may not be of concern if you don't work in low light.

 

If you really want AE, I can recommend the Zeiss Ikon. I bought one as a replacement for my M7 and have been soundly impressed. It is (IMO) much better for many reasons. Among them, faster shutter speed, bigger, brighter viewfinder (more usable with glasses), higher contrast rangefinder, speed visible in viewfinder in manual mode, faster flash sync, easier film loading, film viewing window, better rapid rewind, simple and bullet-proof ISO mode, AE toggle/lock button, and a well-designed exposure compensation dial that is built into the shutter speed dial. Build quality is very solid, and the shutter is metal and more durable. Plus, it's a lot cheaper.

 

Only negative point is there's no 75mm frameline.

Edited May 19, 2010 by ndjambrose