The M10 or a new camera line? [Merged]

[jsrockit]

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Never in a million years. Did you not read what I wrote? I have a DSLR with live-view and I never, ever use it.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

I didn't realize that Chrishayton was your alias. My point was that people who don't care for SLRs would probably like liveview or an EVF more. Of course, it is just a guess and not based on real life evidence.

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[lct]

You have to admit that liveview and an EVF are better alternatives than a DSLR though no?

Which dSLR did you dislike that much?

[bill]

I didn't realize that Chrishayton was your alias. My point was that people who don't care for SLRs would probably like liveview or an EVF more. Of course, it is just a guess and not based on real life evidence.

 

I'm so sorry, I - and a few others, by the look of it - didn't realise that you were holding a private conversation. Your point is still unsubstantiated speculative nonsense, however.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[jsrockit]

Which dSLR did you dislike that much?

 

All of them... but mostly film SLRs. I've only tried Nikon DSLRs. Just not my thing. I much prefer rangefinders and EVF cameras. That said, I've learned to like live view once I realized you don't have to hold it 2 feet away from you. I use it in a normal camera stance 5-7" from my face.

 

I love you to Bill. However, you did say "Did you not read what I wrote?" I didn't quote you so it is a bit confusing.

[andybarton]

Then you should try an R8 or R9 before condemning all SLRs to the scrap heap.

 

It's like saying "I drove a Trabant once, therefore all cars are crap"

[stunsworth]

But can you actually see the screen in sunshine?

 

The G2 is an "SLR", so it doesn't require you to use the rear screen.

 

Speaking of rear screens, I had another go using my GF-1 with a Leica lens today. Out of the 12 shots I took with a 35mm Summicron I'd say 4 are in acceptable focus. I found it very difficult to judge focus using the rear screen. Maybe it was because I was in daylight, maybe it's because I'm still not used to it, but even when taking the shot I wasn't sure if it was in focus or not - so I'm putting the 4 well focussed shots down to luck.

[stunsworth]

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Then you should try an R8 or R9 before condemning all SLRs to the scrap heap.

 

The other thing you have to think about with an EVF camera is shutter lag. I don't know if my GF-1 is typical, but the way it works is that when you are looking at the screen there is no shutter in front of the sensor - obviously otherwise you wouldn't be able to see anything . When you press the shutter button the mechanical shutter appears in front of the sensor, it then fires, and then it moves away again. I'm guessing that the sensor also prepares itself for taking the photograph rather than displaying the live view, but as I say that's a guess.

 

The shutter lag because of all of this is no where near as bad as with a compact ps&s, but I have the feeling it's still a fair bit longer than say an M or R camera.

 

As I say I don't know if this is how other EVF cameras work.

[xjr]

Nonsense........buy Japanese instead.

[stunsworth]

Nonsense........buy Japanese instead.

 

I think it would help if you let us know what is nonsense.

[nugat]

The G2 is an "SLR", so it doesn't require you to use the rear screen.

 

Speaking of rear screens, I had another go using my GF-1 with a Leica lens today. Out of the 12 shots I took with a 35mm Summicron I'd say 4 are in acceptable focus. I found it very difficult to judge focus using the rear screen. Maybe it was because I was in daylight, maybe it's because I'm still not used to it, but even when taking the shot I wasn't sure if it was in focus or not - so I'm putting the 4 well focussed shots down to luck.

 

It has been established by early m43 users that there is no point using legacy lens (like M) on the bodies. You would be better off putting the kit 14-45 lens on. The picture quality is astoundingly close to a Leica glass on M8. For faster glass the 20/1.7 is unbeatable.

One of the comparisons I made here:

 

EP1 vs Leica M8 picture resolution - The GetDPI Photography Forums

[Jerry_R]

I found focusing M lenses tougher, than other legacy lenses, eg. Canon FD.

 

Eg. focusing with 75mm Summicron - small focusing ring movement - caused too big change of focus. Other lenses have more "space" for focusing movement.

[stunsworth]

It has been established by early m43 users that there is no point using legacy lens (like M) on the bodies...

 

Yes, but I'm talking about the overall ability to focus them, not a specific problem such as quality fall off towards the edge of the frame with wide angle lenses.

 

The 20mm lens is indeed excellent.

[Jerry_R]

It is also easier, quicker to use EVF than just LCD.

[bill]

It has been established by early m43 users that there is no point using legacy lens (like M) on the bodies.

 

Not by this one.

 

It's not just about the destination, it's about the journey too.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[jsrockit]

Then you should try an R8 or R9 before condemning all SLRs to the scrap heap.

 

It's like saying "I drove a Trabant once, therefore all cars are crap"

 

Ok, just to be clear... I just don't like looking through SLRs. I've tried the following extensively before finding Leica Ms:

 

Nikon F, F2, F3, F4, FM2, 8008, etc. Also, Canon AE-1, a few Pentaxes, etc. I've had friends with other SLRs, both digital and film. Perhaps the R8 and R9 are nice, but they are too large for me. I'm not saying they aren't beautiful pieces of equipment, they just aren't for me and I don't think I'm alone in not liking SLR style cameras.

[LuxBob]

Did nobody here ever look down into a Rolleiflex or Mamiya?

And this weekend I was playing with my old Linhof. It was a case of try and get it dark enough under the cloth, work out the upside down, reversed image and work out what had to be focussed and then hope you got it right on the ground glass. the alternative was a little mirro finder on the side about as bad as a Box Brownie. I would think an old photographer woudl be happy with any modern viewfinder, electronic, eye level or otherwise.

[AlanG]

Ok, just to be clear... I just don't like looking through SLRs. I've tried the following extensively before finding Leica Ms:

 

Nikon F, F2, F3, F4, FM2, 8008, etc. Also, Canon AE-1, a few Pentaxes, etc. I've had friends with other SLRs, both digital and film. Perhaps the R8 and R9 are nice, but they are too large for me. I'm not saying they aren't beautiful pieces of equipment, they just aren't for me and I don't think I'm alone in not liking SLR style cameras.

 

And this means there is no value in Leica making a line of cameras that can do things that the M can't do? Just because you don't need it?

[jaapv]

What is different in that compared to pushing Leica to make a line of cameras because you do need it? Or a latter-day Visoflex for that matter? This forum is a relatively broad church.

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[jsrockit]

And this means there is no value in Leica making a line of cameras that can do things that the M can't do? Just because you don't need it?

 

Huh, WTF? I think you are taking me a bit out of context. I don't think we are talking about a Leica SLR anyway and I was in support of a EVIL Leica. I'm all for Leica making as many cameras as they can make... even if I don't like them. The next M, however, will be a rangefinder.

[Photoskeptic]

I can't help thinking that some of the people who want the rangefinder replaced with an EVF or similar would actually be happier with an SLR in the first place.

 

Right on, Steve!