azzo Posted April 25, 2010 Author Share #61 Posted April 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Azzo, do you allow me to make a proposal? Ask the dealer if he would offer you another chrome 35mm Summilux for exactly the price you were refunded by him. If the dealer says "yes, but I don't know if and when I get another and if it has the same quality, but I shall offer you one for the price we agreed upon originally if I get another. In the meantime you keep the money." Then I'd say: fair enough and no reason to blame the dealer at all. But if the dealer said "NO!" to your proposal I shall change my attitude and shall think that he want's to make some unfair profit out of the situation caused by the loss of the first Summilux. UliWer, Thank you but I'm not sure I understood you. Honestly, I lost all the faith I had with this shop and owner. Who wouldn't?! I mean, the owner runs a good business and is supposed to have a good reputation. I was one of many who spoke highly of this shop even on this Forum. Can you imagine my dismay when I got treated this way?! No, I do not think I can ever do 'business' with this shop ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 25, 2010 Posted April 25, 2010 Hi azzo, Take a look here Be Careful !!! ... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted April 25, 2010 Share #62 Posted April 25, 2010 ...3. If the laws of a sale apply the question must be answerd which party bears the risk of loss during delivery (I guess the 35mm got lost during delivery to you). Answer depends on the jurisdiction but according to many laws if you asked for delivery you have to bear the risk (but only the normal risk of loss and only if the other party has complied with the delivery method agreed with you). 4. If you ultimately bear the delivery risk your lenses are gone. However, you are entitled to get assigned all rights and claims your counterpart may have against the delivery company or any third party responsible for the loss... Agree. Depends on the applicable law of course (jurisdiction is another matter) but dealers do not usually bear the risk of loss after shipping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted April 25, 2010 Author Share #63 Posted April 25, 2010 Agree. Depends on the applicable law of course (jurisdiction is another matter) but dealers do not usually bear the risk of loss after shipping. That is why they have the parcel insured by the couriers no! As in this case, the parcel was insured. As a matter of fact, I had to wait for approx 5 weeks to get my money. .. .. Not before the couriers confirmed with this dealer that in fact the parcel was lost ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 25, 2010 Share #64 Posted April 25, 2010 Bearing the risk means that you are entitled to sue the insurer of course but the dealer did his job before shipping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted April 25, 2010 Share #65 Posted April 25, 2010 UliWer, Thank you but I'm not sure I understood you. Honestly, I lost all the faith I had with this shop and owner. Who wouldn't?... Well, you wanted to have the 35mm Summilux in chrome. If the dealer said, i'll offer you one again for the same price if I get one, I see no reason to mistrust the dealer. You got the money back to pay the price once more, the dealer wouldn't charge you twice. To tell you my personal truth as an answer to your question who would not have lost faith with this shop and owner: I wouldn't. Any other attitude would imply that it wasn't true the lens got lost, and the dealer just wanted to make a bargain getting your lenses. I do not read this in what you have told about the affair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 25, 2010 Share #66 Posted April 25, 2010 Azzo, thanks for the post on this subject, and if you are not satisfied with the end result, I would appreciate your posting who this company is. I am no lawyer so I do not know the legality of this transaction, but it really doesn't matter, IMO. The deal was an exchange of two lenses plus cash for one lens. You should have received your two lenses back as well as the cash. PERIOD. The shop will get the insurance money for the lost lens,To me, this is the fair way to handle the situation. As a consumer, I would not want to deal with a shop that did otherwise, whether they were legally correct or not. I hope the chrome 35 shows up for your sake! I can quite understand Ivan's grievance, but this solution is plainly impossible once the lenses have been sold. That creates a difficult situation. If I were the dealer I would do my utmost to source a replacement lens instead of simply refunding a net sum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted April 25, 2010 Author Share #67 Posted April 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) UliWer, In the beginning of this thread, I had said, "to cut a long story short." I didn't want or felt necessary to go into more detail. .. For example, I didn't say that this this shop had forgotten that I wanted this 35 Summilux since approx 2 years. One fine day, I saw it ( not the lost one but another) there on their site. I sent them an email immediately saying that I wished to deal on this lens and that they should have informed me as they knew I was on their 'waiting' list. I recieved an email from them saying "Sorry, but the lens is now sold !" and they promised that I will have the first that came in. Not a word in months. Very recently, I reminded them that I was still very interested in this 35 Summilux and not to forget me. I immediately recieve another email from them saying that they had (the now lost one) one in store. The "Deal" was done. You all by now know what happened next and there's no need to repeat. What you don't know is that the one I dealt for had a very small dent but I still wanted it. .. What I didn't know was that in fact they had another one in the shop with no dent and this was put up on thier site at the same price I had 'bought' mine right after my deal was done and the lens was supposed to be on its way here. In one of my emails to them after 'my' lens got lost, I let them know that I had in fact noticed another chrome 35 mm Summilux on their site, this time with no small dent and that it was selling for the same price. Not a single word about this from them !!! Not once did I imply that I had doubt that the lens was really lost. I still have the Tracking Number, lens Serial Number and also an email from the Shippers asking me whether I recieved the lens or not. Why on earth was this guy asking me, I do not know. I mean, as he was the Shipper, he should know well enough that the lens never made it to its destination! Was this normal procedure, to ask me, I asked myself. Truth be told, by this time, I was really getting worried and even thought that I might not even get paid for what I had already forked out. UliWer, yes, by now I have every right and reason to have in fact lost all faith in this shop and owner. I wonder what would have been the outcome had the Shippers not confirmed the 'loss' !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 25, 2010 Share #68 Posted April 25, 2010 I still have the Tracking Number, lens Serial Number and also an email from the Shippers asking me whether I recieved the lens or not. Why on earth was this guy asking me, I do not know. I mean, as he was the Shipper, he should know well enough that the lens never made it to its destination! Was this normal procedure, to ask me, I asked myself. I have had an expensive consignment left on my doorstep in the front garden by a very well know international shipper - a fully insured shipment which needed signing for! I would suspect that signatures are not always obtained when they should be and that when things go wrong I can see that the shipper might well query you to ask whether you have received the item, just in case the sender is 'trying it on'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted April 25, 2010 Share #69 Posted April 25, 2010 Ivan- I'm really sorry to hear about this episode and thanks for bringing it to our attention. In my mind irrespective of what the law says or how it may be interpreted, it's fairly straightforward: 1. You have an unsatisfied customer, who through no fault of his has been short-changed. He's ended up in a worse off position than where he was at the commencement of this deal. 2. On the other hand you have the dealer who is now in a better position than he was when this transaction/s commenced. He's sold Ivan's lenses at a profit and has been paid by the insurance company for the lost lens. The one who's been shafted is the customer. It's a rather mercenary and ruthless approach from the dealer. Whichever way you look at it this stinks! If you don't come right I would name and shame the dealer. As you said earlier, you don't want this happening to someone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted April 25, 2010 Author Share #70 Posted April 25, 2010 I have had an expensive consignment left on my doorstep in the front garden by a very well know international shipper - a fully insured shipment which needed signing for! I would suspect that signatures are not always obtained when they should be and that when things go wrong I can see that the shipper might well query you to ask whether you have received the item, just in case the sender is 'trying it on'. I'm not sure about that and can only speak for myself and what the procedures are over here. .. The shippers recieve the parcel and I'm contacted. I choose whether to have it delivered to my doorstep or to collect the parcel myself. In either case, I have to produce my ID Card and also sign the papers that I in fact recieved the parcel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted April 25, 2010 Share #71 Posted April 25, 2010 ...In one of my emails to them after 'my' lens got lost, I let them know that I had in fact noticed another chrome 35 mm Summilux on their site, this time with no small dent and that it was selling for the same price. Not a single word about this from them !!! ... Then I agree with you that the treatment you got from this dealer after all was not fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted April 26, 2010 Author Share #72 Posted April 26, 2010 UliWer, If for a moment, I doubted myself and thought I might be wrong, I would not have opened this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted April 26, 2010 Share #73 Posted April 26, 2010 No-one has so far suggested that the dealer has at least a moral duty to approach the two persons who bought Ivan's lenses and ask if there's any chance that they might be returned and due compensation offered for this. As many have suggested, at present the dealer has profits from those subsequent transactions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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