M9 - coincidence at infinity

[jaeger]

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On 7/14/2018 at 11:15 PM, leonasj said:

tried myself adjust a bit,my summilux m 50asph on m9 perfect focus at close 70cm and mid 3-5m distance,but has back focus at infinity, after i set correct infinity focus,then lost focus at close 70cm distance(...

The graph is actually a curve instead of a straight line.  The curve is supposed to look like y=x^2 + 0.7 at the first quadrant where 0.7 is the minimal distant.  The camera and lenses should share a carbon copy curve. 

If you case, you need to work on the length of the arm to make adjust the curve.  I have done that and successfully work for 1 lens at a time.   So, you'll be fine if you use only 1 lens but if you own multiple lenses... headache!  That implies a bigger problem... the sensor is either titled or bad sensor.  However, a good copy of camera should work with all lenses with only 1 setting and doesn't need to adjust. 

You can trust the focus curve on lens more than the camera because the lens has tight tolerance.  Unlike camera, I have seen lenses with focus bias to front or back where the subject is on the edge of focus but still inside the focus.   But camera can go WAY off!

If Leica is keep shipping bad cameras as new to customers, it will cost them a class action lawsuit.

 

 

[natnbook]

 

On 4/13/2010 at 9:21 PM, Julian Thompson said:

Brett - - you have to place that manually and stop up and down in your testing but knowing how good your eye is you'd have no trouble making sure you were setting it in the right place. Then again I should imagine you have your own personal team of gnomes from Solms following you around with a shiny Leica support van, re-setting your bodies like a tennis pro has rackets tensioned ? No?

 

 

 

I know this is not for everyone and that's not what I'm saying - my aim in posting is to share the work I have done and the successes I have had with my own adjustments.

 

It is very nice to know how to tweak one's own camera very quickly if necessary. It is nice to remove the 'aura' from the rangefinder mechanism in one's own mind and kind of feel at one with it. That's all.

 

 

So

 

Jamie - this is the explanation I posted a little while back along with a couple of pics for you to look at. As adil says you need to take a sample of shots from every lens (and body if possible) you have to make sure you're calibrating it right.

 

You will need a 2.5mm allen key and a small screwdriver which you should grind a very slight angle on so that as you fit the screwdriver into the head on the focus throw pivot (A) on the diagram it allows a nice flat drive.

 

A) is the focus throw adjustment. If you look at the pic you can see that the screw retains an eccentric cam. If you loosen the screw you can rotate the cam (as denoted by the pink and blue arrows) freely. As you do so, the length of the arm itself changes.

 

By moving the cam counter-clockwise (as in pink arrow) you INCREASE the total available focus throw.

 

By moving the cam clockwise (as in blue arrow) you DECREASE the total available focus throw.

 

is the infinity adjustment as we know.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key counter clockwise (as in green arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity further away - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

If you rotate the 2.5mm hex key clockwise (as in yellow arrow) you move the point at which the rangefinder 'sees' infinity closer to you - and this 'references everything forward of that.

 

Right - so they are the two adjustments you have available to you. From my playing about the best way to set it up is this.

 

1) Infinity is very important. Step 1 is to look at something with lots of contrast a long way off (a star does seem to work very well but today I've been using a clock tower in the far distance and that's fine too) and then adjust the roller ( so that this perfectly coincides. Don't accept the nonesense I was spouting before about it not mattering. It really matters that you can 100% converge the object at infinity.

 

2) Now, take a photo at a big aperture of something close to you - like 0.8 meters or similar. I found text to be excellent. Note whether you now have front focus or back focus. If you have front focus (like I did - big time!) then your focus throw is too short; ie your arm is too long, so when the lens rotates you're not pushing the rangefinder enough. So you need to shorten the arm by loosening (A) and twisting the cam slightly anti-clockwise. (If you have backfocus then it's obviously the inverse and you need to go clockwise to lengthen the arm and reduce your focus throw).

 

3) Now, recheck infinity. It will now be wrong, because you have now moved the arm and so the roller wheel has also moved. But this is not a problem - just recorrect infinity as in 1) above to compensate for the altered focus throw.

 

4) Repeat step 2. You will see that the focus point has altered. Whether it has moved too little or too much will calibrate your hand/eye as to how much you need to make the adjustments but in general I made positive, but not excessive tweaks each time.

 

5) When you are happy with the infinity and close settings you want to shoot some images off that are at various distances just to make sure that everything is right. On my setup which consists of all current model lenses (not sure if this is relevent) I did not have to compensate with any kind of compromise here. When my infinity setting is right and the focus throw is perfect the transgression from near to far is linear and my lenses are sharp right the way through the range. I suppose that if this were not the case or if your lenses varied then you'd need to get them recalibrated, or maybe accept a compromise setting.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

Have fun

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Thank you for detailed info, After weeks of googling, I find this post very helpful 
I'm using 262 for a year and starting to notice at infinity focus the building which is like 5-6 KM away (Focus at infinity) has a little separation 

This Image Before & After some very slightly adjustment on the roller B 
Will translate this into Thais and share with some folks if you have a green light 

Salute
 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by natnbook
Edit the images

[arcstudio3d]

Thanks so much for fantastic visuals and ideas how to calibrate RF Leica. I just purchased M10-p second hand almost new, with front focus being consistent from close-up to infinity.

Simple few small clockwise adjustments to the wheel, fixed my problem. Now, I can focus with OVF better than with EVF. Thanks again for great posts!

 

[gippo]

On 10/7/2018 at 07:11, leonasj said:

può eventualmente diffuse link ebay o

Può un link inviato a eBay o Amazon, im vuole comprare questo strumento grazie

I apologize but I saw the request only now ... https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B001JGEUH8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Tobias]

Thanks a lot for all this. I bought an old summilux from the seventies and an m240, and always thought the picture quality had something to do with the ”dreamy” look of that particular lens. Then i got a new summilux fle a few days ago, and realized it was very much the same kind of look to the pictures, which made me think something is wrong. But i cannot help thinking WHY does it not say anything about this in the manual for the camera? Should every user just know, since birth, how a RF works mechanically? 

[jaapv]

Yes

[Good To Be Retired]

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I find it difficult to believe I'm replying to a 10 year old post, but the information Mr. Thompson provided has saved me such an enormous amount of difficulty that I would be remiss in not offering my gratitude for his efforts, whether he reads it or not   My front focusing m240 no longer needs a lengthy trip to Leica.

Regarding anyone who might experience some trepidation in trying this procedure, let me add my experience that it's dead simple.   It took about 10 minutes as I only needed adjust the roller, and everything is now focusing correctly.  My only surprise was having to adjust more than I had expected and the hex screw turned much easier than I would have anticipated.  Perhaps that's the reason it was out of adjustment to begin with.  

Thanx Mr . Thompson

[petecarr]

So my M240 has/d back focus issues. I tried to get my head around the procedure for this but eventually gave up. By luck I may have tweaked it enough to resolve the issue. The only problem is I don't understand what I've done to be able to replicate it in the future. 

I understood that you need to loosen one screw enough to rotate the cam (not sure what that part is) either clockwise or anti-clockwise. You may also need to tweak the hex screw side in the roller. I think I must have accidentally adjusted the hex screw side because I could not figure out what the cam part was to make it shorter or longer.

It certainly seems better though. Close up detail shots are in focus at f/2 on my 50mm and long distance objects actually line up correctly. I just thought that focusing to infinity was always off because it was a Zeiss lens not a proper Leica one. 

[vwillrocku]

Hi all forum members, this is my first post in the forum and I hope everyone is still fine. I am also new to Leica products and I get a second hand M10. After one month of usage my M10 is out of focus and after reading the whole 14 pages of this thread I still have 2 questions to see if anyone could help:

1. Infinity of my rangefinder is off. When using an allen key to turn the roller clockwise (when the camera is upside down), the arm doesn't move and it is easier to adjust. Doing anti-clockwise, the whole arm would move (I think it is the function of the arm?) and makes harder to adjust. So should I hold the arm with my fingers or let the arm moves to its end position, then make the roller adjustment?

2. If the infinity is correct and near focus still exists, from the information of this thread I can loosen the arm screw and rotate the arm anti-clockwise to shorten the arm. Is my understanding is correct? And how easy to loosen the screw of M10 as I heard M9 is quite hard because of the straight screw head rather than Phillips?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

 

[a.noctilux]

Hello vwillrocku,

1 . the adjustment is very very slight, just a couple of degrees ( 5° at most), then each adjustment, check with a know calibrated lens, and so on

2 . I'd not touch the near focus setting

 

Maybe now the adjustments are too much off that you may send for proper calibration in a tech repair workshop approved by Leica.

[antigallican]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello vwillrocku,

1 . the adjustment is very very slight, just a couple of degrees ( 5° at most), then each adjustment, check with a know calibrated lens, and so on

2 . I'd not touch the near focus setting

 

Maybe now the adjustments are too much off that you may send for proper calibration in a tech repair workshop approved by Leica.

Though I agree it's easy to go past the optimum point, it really doesn't matter if you slightly over adjust. I recently followed the instructions and got my M9/summicron 50  running perfectly and I think I wouldn't count as very technically adept. It just needs patience. I found repeated shots of a tape measure laid out on a long table helpful, interspersed with shots of a church spire I can see from my front door.

[jaeger]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:16 AM, vwillrocku said:

Hi all forum members, this is my first post in the forum and I hope everyone is still fine. I am also new to Leica products and I get a second hand M10. After one month of usage my M10 is out of focus and after reading the whole 14 pages of this thread I still have 2 questions to see if anyone could help:

1. Infinity of my rangefinder is off. When using an allen key to turn the roller clockwise (when the camera is upside down), the arm doesn't move and it is easier to adjust. Doing anti-clockwise, the whole arm would move (I think it is the function of the arm?) and makes harder to adjust. So should I hold the arm with my fingers or let the arm moves to its end position, then make the roller adjustment?

2. If the infinity is correct and near focus still exists, from the information of this thread I can loosen the arm screw and rotate the arm anti-clockwise to shorten the arm. Is my understanding is correct? And how easy to loosen the screw of M10 as I heard M9 is quite hard because of the straight screw head rather than Phillips?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

 

the infinity setting is behind the logo but not on the coupling arm.  what you did is moving the back and front focus.

[jaapv]

Errr.. The vertical adjustment is behind the logo. The  infinity adjustment is in the roller wheel of the arm.

[jdlaing]

On 6/20/2019 at 3:31 PM, arcstudio3d said:

Thanks so much for fantastic visuals and ideas how to calibrate RF Leica. I just purchased M10-p second hand almost new, with front focus being consistent from close-up to infinity.

Simple few small clockwise adjustments to the wheel, fixed my problem. Now, I can focus with OVF better than with EVF. Thanks again for great posts!

 

Ain’t it great?

[jaeger]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

Errr.. The vertical adjustment is behind the logo. The  infinity adjustment is in the roller wheel of the arm.

You're right, I'm sorry, I haven't done it for a year now.  my apologies for confusions. 

[vwillrocku]

Thanks a lot for the tips. I will try to DIY and wish I could fix the focusing issue. 

[EdricBF]

My pretty new M9 fell about 2ft to the floor and its RF settings suffered (not as much as myself, for that matter...), both vertical and horizontal. I pondered the few (and expensive) pro options I have here in South America and decided to follow this wonderful thread (and links) suggestions for DIY alignment.

I was afraid about pivots, arms etc. but I came across this: "fixing lateral rangefinder misalignment is, most of the time, simply adjusting the roller for infinite and everything falls in place...", or something like that. Using the 2mm wrench, it only took a few very small torsions applied to the roller's hex screw in both directions to have my 50 and 90 Summicrons aligning the images at infinite again. Taking pictures of objects at different distances at f/2 showed that the infinite adjustment was all my camera needed for other distances. No back or front focus so far, at least with those lenses. 

I was afraid I could screw up something, but it was very direct and simple, actually.

I decided no to go to the vertical alignment at this time, since it is very small.

Cheers

[alex7075]

Hello everybody,

I recently fixed a M9's rangefinder using a 50mm Summilux ASPH. The length of the arm had to be increased and now the lens is razor sharp at all distances.

I then mounted a Noctilux that confirmed the success of the operation: sharp at all distances.

BUT: the 90mm and the 35mm front-focus at all distances, and they become sharp only if I mount them without reaching the click of the locking mechanism, i.e. by turning the lenses a little bit counterclockwise (with the camera looking at me) from the locked position. If I tweak the roller cam for these two lenses it works, but then the two 50mm backfocus. All this suggests us that the arm length is fine and the problem is elsewhere.

Now, these very same lenses are all spot on when I mount them on my M9M.

Do you have any idea how this can be?

[fenykepesz]

i will give a try and apply Julian Thompson's instructions on my M10-D which became increasingly out of focus, perhaps it was already when i bought it.  both my Asph Summilux lenses,  50mm and 35mm, are affected equally as they both rear-focus (back-focus) at minimal distance (.7m) as well as infinity (moonlight), and at many other distances between these two extremes.  very annoying.  i wasn't aware of this problem and didn't think about it till recently, silly me - although i wasn't happy at all with the not-so-razor-sharp images over the last two years or so.  i thought it was a manual focusing issue on my end...

this current focusing issue underpins my main reasoning why not to buy that new M11 as 'just' improving its sensor and adding all these new M lenses is not enough in my opinion.  i believe we absolutely and urgently need an electronic focusing aid (hybrid EVF/OVF, invoked by simple button press) and then also an IBIS system, to truly make best use of modern sensors & lenses. as long as such is not implemented i will stick to my M10-D and wait for an M12-D... right ?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[antigallican]

8 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

this current focusing issue underpins my main reasoning why not to buy that new M11 as 'just' improving its sensor and adding all these new M lenses is not enough in my opinion.  i believe we absolutely and urgently need an electronic focusing aid (hybrid EVF/OVF, invoked by simple button press) and then also an IBIS system, to truly make best use of modern sensors & lenses. as long as such is not implemented i will stick to my M10-D and wait for an M12-D... right ?

I don’t think IBIS could be implemented without new and much bigger lenses. The rangefinder in a Leica is also entirely manual. If you’d make the changes you want it would be another camera. I own and enjoy a Q which does all this, but it’s not an M and i can’t really compare it to my M9