k-hawinkler Posted March 4, 2011 Share #181 Posted March 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Washington, Welcome onboard. I have several Visoflex III. Can you imagine the fun one could have. Also, with LiveView one would be sure when to send in an M-bayonet lens for adjustment. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here Video mode on future M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Washington Posted March 4, 2011 Share #182 Posted March 4, 2011 Indeed! But I will add a correction to my previous statement so I don't get anyone upset. (sheesh) Replace "fart" with Luddite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 4, 2011 Share #183 Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks. That's better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
*j-w-m* Posted March 4, 2011 Share #184 Posted March 4, 2011 Video mode on a Leica M? Bring it on......I might even be tempted to use one for real work instead as a toy. Make it 1080p, please. ;-) 1080p and some other codec than H264. And a way to record a RAW format to an external recorder. And professional balanced audio inputs. And control over shutter angle. And no rolling shutter issues. And ergonomics that allow for natural handheld video work. Can you imagine trying to focus moving video with a rangefinder? Or with a live view with a delay like the 5D/7D/60D? My point is that a company that excels in cameras for still photography is not likely to also excel in the features that are needed in an effective camera for video. The 5D is great for what it is, but several of my colleagues in the industry (film production and post) are already tired of the fixed screen, mediocre audio, shutter issues, codec artifacts, etc. and are headed back in the direction of full format cameras like the Arri Alexa. I would not want Leica to just tack on the ability to record video, when everything else about the camera is built perfectly for stills. I _would _ really like for a company that understands the needs for video to build a full-frame sensor equipped camera, that accepts Leica M lenses. That utilizes the strengths of both manufacturers, and I would buy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 4, 2011 Share #185 Posted March 4, 2011 I _would _ really like for a company that understands the needs for video to build a full-frame sensor equipped camera, that accepts Leica M lenses. That utilizes the strengths of both manufacturers, and I would buy it. The rangefinder is irrelevant for video as you'd typically use live view. But consider that for many years Hollywood used Mitchell 35mm movie cameras that employed a separate viewfinder. (Non reflex.) For serious video work, I can't see how one would adapt Leica M lenses to use follow focus controls. A separate line of video lenses may make sense. I can mostly see video in an M maybe for casual use by photojournalists or hobbyists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 4, 2011 Share #186 Posted March 4, 2011 I think it would be more useful to have a built in MP3 player so that you could listen to Charles Trenet when shooting in Paris looking for those classic 'Leica' shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #187 Posted March 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've been photographing events since 2002 and have worked alongside videographers at many of them. Previously, they all used video cameras such as those from Sony and Panasonic. Today, nearly all of the videographers that I see are using at least one Canon 5D2, and sometimes several of them, along with other models such as the 7D. In their camera bags, they have a new collection of brand new Canon lenses. All of these new buyers have sent a lot of money Canon's way. Meanwhile, I use the same Canon cameras & lenses as the videographers (along with the M9) and the added video functions haven't diminished or over-complicated the cameras as stills cameras. Nor have they increased the price. The video-capable 5D2 ($2500) costs less than the original video-less 5D did when it was new ($3300). Looking at the 5D2's exterior, there is virtually no trace of its video functions, and there is not even one new button to accommodate video. Video's existence in the camera is almost entirely hidden in a menu that a stills photographer need never look at. The mirror up/live view function has simply been added to another button that was on the original 5D. And one has to look hard to find the three tiny holes where the microphone is. Moreover, the added video functions have helped me as a stills photographer. For architectural photography, the 5X and 10X liveview helps me achieve super-accurate manual focus quite easily, no matter which lens I am using. And I'll be photographing an event for which the M9 would be too loud even its Discrete mode (because of the shutter cocking noise). The 5D2 and 7D are likewise too loud in their standard mode. But with the mirror up and using liveview, the 5D2 and 7D are just quiet enough for me to get permission to photograph the event, provided I shoot only during speaking or music and not during quiet moments. You mention Leica's heritage, which includes a collection of amazing lenses. Imagine those lenses finding an entirely new market of buyers who prefer manual focus and don't want noisy features such as image stabilization. I don't need video on a future M, but I can see it being a valuable selling point to new buyers and making good business sense for the company. I don't know the technical aspects of switching from CCD to CMOS, but it's not as if CCD somehow magically and uniquely embodies the Leica heritage (... did HCB use CCD or CMOS?) Got your point, but then it wouldn't be an M anymore. To me rangefinder viewer and taking videos simply do not mix. What you ultimately want is a reflex system with the added bonus of liveview but keeping manual focus. To me this points straight towards a reborn R-system. Leave the M-system as is for the old dinosaurs like me. Cheers, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 4, 2011 Share #188 Posted March 4, 2011 Put me down for not bloating the next version of the camera either...maybe do it to the S3. I'm repeating my quote of this post because, to me, it blows all the other arguments out of the water. Have a video capable body that takes Leica glass by all means, but start with an appropriate platform rather than one designed 50 years ago that has remained largely unchanged since then. In other words put that saddle on a horse that is vaguely the right shape, not one that has evolved into a largely incompatible form. Simples. Can we all have a cup of tea and a group hug now? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 4, 2011 Share #189 Posted March 4, 2011 I'm repeating my quote of this post because, to me, it blows all the other arguments out of the water. Have a video capable body that takes Leica glass by all means, but start with an appropriate platform rather than one designed 50 years ago that has remained largely unchanged since then. In other words put that saddle on a horse that is vaguely the right shape, not one that has evolved into a largely incompatible form.Simples. Can we all have a cup of tea and a group hug now? Regards, Bill Thanks. I cringe thinking of that horse/camera you describe, probably been designed by a committee. Or worse: this Forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #190 Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks. I cringe thinking of that horse/camera you describe, probably been designed by a committee. Or worse: this Forum The design is already here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/164729-leica-e.html Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 4, 2011 Share #191 Posted March 4, 2011 That's more like it! Reminds me of: A camel is a horse designed by committee. I am confident Leica will do a much better job. Hug everybody, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 4, 2011 Share #192 Posted March 4, 2011 The design is already here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/164729-leica-e.html Bruno Indeed: looks horsey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 4, 2011 Share #193 Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks. I cringe thinking of that horse/camera you describe, probably been designed by a committee. Or worse: this Forum Indeed! ..and having inadvertently mangled that metaphor I will now go on to use the Sword of Damocles to cut the Gordian Knot and arrange my ducks in a row singing from the same song sheet in order to get to the thin end of the white elephant... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 4, 2011 Share #194 Posted March 4, 2011 Bill, your problem is a lack of green fields thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted March 4, 2011 Share #195 Posted March 4, 2011 Video on the M, using Visoflex (or not), sounds more like a job for the hypothetical "R" replacement that can use both R or M lenses. Does everything include correct for bad composition... Video must be on that list... Don't forget there is only one zoom lens available on the M, and it's a 16-21mm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 4, 2011 Share #196 Posted March 4, 2011 Got your point, but then it wouldn't be an M anymore. To me rangefinder viewer and taking videos simply do not mix. What you ultimately want is a reflex system with the added bonus of liveview but keeping manual focus. To me this points straight towards a reborn R-system. Leave the M-system as is for the old dinosaurs like me. Cheers, Bruno You do know that the reflex viewfinder is blacked out when shooting video on a DSLR? So as far as video goes, a DSLR and a live view M would be the same except the M would also have an optical viewfinder and rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 4, 2011 Share #197 Posted March 4, 2011 Dream on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted March 4, 2011 Share #198 Posted March 4, 2011 NEX-5 Leica I'm still not interested in shooting video. But all of this talk has opened my eyes to another possibility for still images. I actually went to a physical store and bought a Sony Nex-5 yesterday and am waiting on the m mount adapter, it's like an M8 (crop factor) except it's fourteen megapixels of CMOS, that seems to be able to be turned up to 12,000 iso, although seriously, even at f2, 2500 iso is really all you'd probably ever need. with a hoodman loupe on the back, it could be used as an awkward live view-viewfinder combo. The loupe may be over kill, as the 921k LCD screen allows you a zoomed in version for precise manual focusing, (sort of like the digilux 2, with 2 levels of a "MF assist" FULL SCREEN magnification). I was checking razor sharp LP titles from 15 feet across the room with the not so great Sony lens that came with it That AF Sony lens is nothing to write home about. This camera can be super automated, or, as I plan on using it, leitz glass, straight Aperture priority with the wheel controlling shutter speed on the back, with a live view of exposure and histogram. I know I'm not the first person to come up with this idea... $700. It also lets you shoot sweep panoramas, (in 3d, no less, if you have a 3d tv). AND it shoots 1080i video. Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted March 4, 2011 Share #199 Posted March 4, 2011 You do know that the reflex viewfinder is blacked out when shooting video on a DSLR? So as far as video goes, a DSLR and a live view M would be the same except the M would also have an optical viewfinder and rangefinder. I know, but I also know that adding video capturing ability to a camera is essentially forcing its nature and that the M series are even less suitable than modern DSLRs to that purpose. Sometimes I wonder why nobody suggested yet that human beings were retrofitted with a two smaller hearts kit. In case of heart attack there'd be more chances for surviving, not to mention the increased capability for high-end athletic performances without the need for dope. Or to attach a tail to our lower backbone. Figure yourself leaning in relax against your tail to read a book whilst queuing for the bus or the increased stability for the sake of taking pictures in low light. Hence my suggestions: 1 - Want to take videos? Buy yourself a camcorder. There are excellent available for relatively cheap these days. As Bill Palmer wrote in a remarkable essay on his blog, use the right tool. Simple as that. 2 - You fear you won't live anymore and there'll be famine, plague, earthquakes, hair loss and toothache everywhere unless you'll be able to capture videos with a photo-camera mounting Leica lenses and keeping manual focus? Buy yourself a Nikanolympentax and use Leica R-lenses with an adapter ring. Since the death of the R-system most of those lenses can be purchased for a song these days. Or as an alternative, Zeiss lenses. They're excellent bang for the buck and in some cases rival if not best their Leica counterparts and sport more modern design. 3 - Gather a group of believers and collectively petition that someone at Solms elect to re-insufflate life into the R-system 4 - Leave the M-system alone. There's a lot of alternatives for the modern folks who want extra features, bells, whistles, acid colors and the kitchen sink in a camera but there are no alternatives left at all for the poor conservative narrow-minded traditionalists like myself who obstinately want to keep shooting digital on a manual focus rangefinder doing nothing else. Hence my - and others' - stubborn uncompromising defense against dramatic changes and to keep as long as possible the status quo. Once the M-system is spoiled, we'll have nothing best left to do than toying with dead tools. Or to learn drawing and painting. Oh, well... HCB saw it coming and did it before everyone else? Cheers, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted March 4, 2011 Share #200 Posted March 4, 2011 What amuses me is that folks thought my Viso-Novoflex long-range contraptions were complicated and silly looking: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/116739-video-mode-on-future-m/?do=findComment&comment=1606457'>More sharing options...
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