jaapv Posted March 22, 2010 Share #141 Posted March 22, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) He obviously didn't read all the "what tape is best to cover the red dot?" threads in this forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Spiller interview in Welt Online. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted March 22, 2010 Share #142 Posted March 22, 2010 The Shoe is the Sign!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 22, 2010 Share #143 Posted March 22, 2010 And reads totally different. I, for one, recognize myself in the phrase: "ambitionierte Fotografen". Yes, he does use the term "photo enthusiast" or 'Enthusiast photographer'. The point is that in the sum of that statement he does not speak of Leica's customers primarily being photographers. He mainly describes them as enthusiasts who purchase a Leica as a status symbol or because they are in love with technology (like people were enamored of the precision engineering of the analog bodies). There is no real mention of people buying a Leica, because it is the best photographic tool in it's category. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 22, 2010 Share #144 Posted March 22, 2010 I would venture to suggest that the vast majority of Leica owners are enthusiasts. They are not the sort of thing that you just buy on a whim. I have met a lot of Leica owners in my time. I have yet to meet one who just sees the camera as a status symbol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 22, 2010 Share #145 Posted March 22, 2010 I would venture to suggest that the vast majority of Leica owners are enthusiasts. They are not the sort of thing that you just buy on a whim. I have met a lot of Leica owners in my time. I have yet to meet one who just sees the camera as a status symbol. I think you are right. The vast majority of sales go to amateurs. But I have met a few who purchased one purely as a status symbol. Not many, but a few. But the same could be said of Nikon. Pros make up a tiny percentage of their buyers. But the difference is that Nikon does not market or see themselves as a luxury brand. They see themselves as a serious camera company that makes cameras for photographers. Their intent is that people buy a Nikon, because it is the best camera on the market. Not because someone wants to impress their friends, although without a doubt a lot of 3Dx bodies are sold for this very reason. But this is not the attitude you see coming from Nikon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted March 22, 2010 Share #146 Posted March 22, 2010 Since everyone's supplying their own translations, here's mine: Collectors who buy every M-model we bring to market. People who are keen on the technology and are looking for a top-quality full frame digital camera. Ambitious photographers who don't want just any camera but one with the red Leica dot. There is no real mention of people buying a Leica, because it is the best photographic tool in it's category. Au contraire. They're the heart of group 2. Note that Mr Spiller distinguishes between group 2, people who buy a Leica because they are genuinely looking for the best tool (with the necessary implication that they won't buy Leica if it's not the best tool), and group 3, which includes people who believe that if it's a Leica it is ipso facto the best tool. Oversimplifying, group 2 buys the performance while group 3 buys the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 22, 2010 Share #147 Posted March 22, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) John, if you keep talking sense like this I'm going to have to marry you! This rabbinical scrying over a few words reflected through a journalistic glass darkly is a waste of time and effort. Has the world changed since Herr Spiller gave his views? No. This interview is not holy scripture. It should not be treated as such. There are some people here who are getting all bent out of shape because they do not recognise themselves in the "categories" - big, fat, hairy deal. Oh, and then there is our resident Armchair CEO who will use any excuse to onanistically spread his views all over every thread that has even the most tangental relevance to Leica management or managers. "Oh what a gift, a gift to gie us, to see ourselves as others see us..." Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Sharp Posted March 22, 2010 Share #148 Posted March 22, 2010 Indeed, Do not meddle in the affairs of Leica fundamentalists and CEOs, for they are subtle and quick to anger. (Nearly J.R.R. Tolkien) Not sure about the "are subtle":) Douglas (Just been out shooting a Canon DSLR with an OM zoom on the front - sacrilege! heresy!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted March 22, 2010 Share #149 Posted March 22, 2010 John, if you keep talking sense like this I'm going to have to marry you! I accept, so long as I can have an M9 and Noctilux instead of a diamond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 22, 2010 Share #150 Posted March 22, 2010 Yes, he does use the term "photo enthusiast" or 'Enthusiast photographer'. No, he does not. "Ambitious" is one who has ambitions; in this context most likely one who strives for perfection. That's not the same at all as an enthusiast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 22, 2010 Share #151 Posted March 22, 2010 K-h,moin aus Hannover - duldsamkeit/geduldsamkeit (wie archaisch) is actually very probably what he meant, and has, as you know, more to do with patience - in this sense, indeed "long-suffering" (which in itself has nothing to do with suffering in the sense of pain, torture, passion or sorrow) could be an adequate (but not adäquat) translation, and - surprise, surprise, has another meaning: tolerant ... Grüße aus Hannover Douglas Douglass, Thanks. Sorry, but I have to disagree with your reasoning. I am not in the business of discerning what somebody meant but what they actually said or wrote. Cheers, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted March 22, 2010 Share #152 Posted March 22, 2010 ...onanistically spread his views...Bill Thank you, Bill. I learned a new word today! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted March 22, 2010 Share #153 Posted March 22, 2010 I accept, so long as I can have an M9 and Noctilux instead of a diamond. John you have all my sympathy ....He probably wants the M9 and Nocti to impress his mates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 22, 2010 Share #154 Posted March 22, 2010 Thank you, Bill. I learned a new word today! Doug Always happy to be of service, Doug Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Sharp Posted March 22, 2010 Share #155 Posted March 22, 2010 Douglas, Thanks. Sorry, but I have to disagree with your reasoning. I am not in the business of discerning what somebody meant but what they actually said or wrote. Cheers, K-H. Of course I understand your point of view, and I'm also sure I would have heard and understood better what H.Spiller had said if I had been there (from his tone of voice and body language). A translator IS in the business you mention, lives from it and will soon be out of a job if he or she doesn't get across what was meant, and in a language appropriate to the intended target group. A 1:1 translation is very rarely what clients expect or want, but rather an interpretation of their words in the most comprehensible and positive sense for the particular target group. This also explains why 2 or more translators will never produce identical translations of the same source text, and this depends on their own interpretation, which is influenced by their linguistic skills and talents, their fields of expertise and, to some extent, the degree of empathy with the target group addressed. For example, the interview would be completely different in translation depending on the target group and purpose , for instance, photographers, investors, or as part of a marketing pitch. It would also be different depending on the region, culture or country in which it is intended to be read. US and UK English are vastly different and "localisation" is a whole industry segment for matching language to regions and countries. The only solution is to ask H. Spiller precisely what he said and meant, how much of it was interpreted by the interviewer and how much got past his editor and into print. Or maybe he'll give an interview in English for us. Cheers Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 22, 2010 Share #156 Posted March 22, 2010 Douglas, Many thanks for explaining where you are coming from. I appreciate your point of view as well. I would like to suggest that Mr. Spiller needs to get the help of a communications expert so that he effectively can communicate for the benefit of Leica and their customers in general, but in particular for those of their customers who are actively involved in photography. Thanks again, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 22, 2010 Share #157 Posted March 22, 2010 The Shoe is the Sign!!!!!!!! Some things in life are bad They can really make you mad Other things just make you swear and curse. When you're chewing on life's gristle Don't grumble, give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best... And...always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the light side of life... If life seems jolly rotten There's something you've forgotten And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. When you're feeling in the dumps Don't be silly chumps Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing. And...always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the light side of life... For life is quite absurd And death's the final word You must always face the curtain with a bow. Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow. So always look on the bright side of death Just before you draw your terminal breath Life's a piece of shit When you look at it Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true. You'll see it's all a show Keep 'em laughing as you go Just remember that the last laugh is on you. And always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the right side of life... (Come on guys, cheer up!) Always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the bright side of life... (Worse things happen at sea, you know.) Always look on the bright side of life... (I mean - what have you got to lose?) (You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!) Always look on the right side of life... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share #158 Posted March 22, 2010 ... LEO, although very good, requires interpretation and context to be used correctly, and is about as precise as Wikipedia. ProZ, where the professional translators of the world gather, is more reliable.... Thanks for the info; I'll check it out. M10?? Earth calling Wolkenkuckcucksland - it is 2010 right now - there is no M10.... But Jaap--we need to wait till 10.X.2010. ... I, for one, recognize myself in the phrase: "ambitionierte Fotografen". But the rest of the definition of this third group explains that these people: a) don't want just any camera, but one with the Leica red dot; and want the best quality and want to approve they can afford it. A lot of us fall squirming between groups two and three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share #159 Posted March 24, 2010 EP's new essay on the DxOMark M9 review suggests that many folks on this forum (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/119948-dxo-review.html) indeed fall into group 3, seeking primarily pride of ownership. BlogI am amazed at the suggestive power of the number games being played in our time. ... [These] have obviously replaced personal judgment and a rational assessment of the required tools. This state of affairs may lead to the conclusion that pride of ownership is nowadays more important than pride of results. Well observed, Mr Spiller! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 24, 2010 Share #160 Posted March 24, 2010 But the rest of the definition of this third group explains that these people: a) don't want just any camera, but one with the Leica red dot; and want the best quality and want to approve they can afford it. A lot of us fall squirming between groups two and three. But I don't want a red dot. I always replace them by black dots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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