Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #1 Posted March 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mod edit: Originally this thread was entitled "M9 Horror story continues: Leica needs to fix Service and Customer Support department" In another thread I reported the problems I've had with my M9 that led me to sell it, which should have been the end of the story but, unfortunately, the horror story continues. The buyer of my M9 was a visitor to Thailand and has gone back home. As all of my original papers for the camera are in Europe, to where I won't get until at least mid-April, all I was able to provide the buyer was a scanned copy of the guarantee. When I contacted Leica Customer Support through their website asking how I could transfer the ownership and the guarantee to the new owner I got the following response: It is necessary to hand out all paperwork, waranty card,*your sales slip and so on to the new owner because of the warranty !It will be transfered to the new owner also ! As long as you didn´t hand out*all paperwork to the new owner, the transfer isn´t finished. He needs to have your sales slip or the warranty card, stamped by your dealer and he needs.. …if he would have a repair. It wouldn´t be free of charge. I responded to Leica Customer Service stating that this response was too rigid and unfair to the new owner, but did not receive the courtesy of a response. This position makes no sense to me at all: the camera is under guarantee and Leica guarantees are transferable when the camera is sold — there is a form on one of the cards included with the camera for transferring ownership. Just because I do not have access to the original documents should not mean that the new owner should not benefit from the guarantee, as I can easily e-mail of fax a signed letter stating that I have sold this camera to this particular person. Leica gains nothing for taking this rigid position except for bad will from a long-standing customer. It seems to me that both this rigidity on the change of ownership and the unwillingness to replace my M9 when the technicians could not reproduce the problem — after all I had sent picture files showing the spurious lighter-colored rectangles — exhibits an attitude of "the customer must be wrong", which is the opposite of what the company should be doing. Both Leica Service and Customer need fixing badly. —Mitch/Paknampran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Hi Guest malland, Take a look here Leica needs to fix Service and Customer Support department. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
anupmc Posted March 10, 2010 Share #2 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, Leica's position is not uncommon (nor unreasonable, IMHO). Clearly they want to support a legitimate secondary/re-sale market and to prevent grey-markets that would be detrimental to their dealer network. I'm sure the new owner can wait awhile to receive your original documents, can't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #3 Posted March 10, 2010 anupmc, the new buyer can wait unless something goes wrong with the camera and he needs warranty service. On the other hand, Leica knows I was the owner of this camera and could accommodate a customer by letting me fax them a signed transfer letter — they lose nothing by that and gain good will. To react that the new buyer would not be able to have guarantee service unless they get the original documents is, in my view, excessively rigid. There is also the issue of downloading and registering Lightroom, which I didn't go into because I didn't want to make the post above too long. The fact is that I've never downloaded or registered Lightroom because I had no interest in using this software. But as I was very busy when I was leaving Europe for Bangkok I did misplace the original sheet with the TAN number necessary for registering the program — users to sometimes so lose documents and a company like Leica should be able to accommodate them when this happens. No, this rigidity that I'm referring to is very similar to Leica Service wanting to return my M9 as it was because they initially couldn't reproduce the spurious rectangle problem, despite the fact that I had sent them files showing it clearly. It's really an attitude of "The Customer Must be Wrong" rather than "The Customer Might be Right". Hey, I'm not even talking about "The Customer is Always Right." —Mitch/Paknampran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted March 10, 2010 Share #4 Posted March 10, 2010 It is clearly your Mum's fault. She pampered you too long. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 10, 2010 Share #5 Posted March 10, 2010 ...This position makes no sense to me at all: the camera is under guarantee and Leica guarantees are transferable when the camera is sold... Doesn't prove your legal ownership i'm afraid. I would ask your Leica shop to confirm they sold you the camera and forward the response to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 10, 2010 Share #6 Posted March 10, 2010 So, it's Leica's fault you haven't got your paperwork and that's an M9 "Horror Story"? Please... Let's get a grip on reality here. If I were the buyer, I'd have left you with the camera and walked away if you had no paperwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #7 Posted March 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Andy, gimme a break! The M9 has been back to Solms twice since I first received the camera on October 14, which means that Leica knows full well it's my camera and registered in my name. I also sent them both times when the camera went back to Solms a scan of my warranty with the stamp and signature of the dealer as well as my signature. There is absolutely they should not accept a signed fax from me transferring ownership. I did not expect to be selling my camera here in Bangkok, which is why my papers are in my flat in Europe. BTW, I did not sell directly to the buyer but through the local used Leica dealer here in Bangkok. I find the reaction amazing that you and the other poster above feel that a manufacturer should not act reasonable. While I haven't lost my papers — except for the paper with the Lightroom TAN nunmber — there is no reason that a manufacturer should not honor a warrantee when the original is lost and one has a copy. —Mitch/Paknampran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
integrale Posted March 10, 2010 Share #8 Posted March 10, 2010 As for the license key for LR, I suspect Leica pays a license fee for each key, so it's not just a matter of providing you with a new key. The only real value is in the key. The copy of the software you can just download, but misplacing the key is like misplacing your camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 10, 2010 Share #9 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch - I know all that, but I'm amazed that anyone, even a dealer, would buy what is an almost new camera without any documentation apart from some scans. It's like meeting someone in a motorway service station and buying a car from them for cash I certainly wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #10 Posted March 10, 2010 Andy, I wouldn't buy a camera this way either; but I don't know the country that the buyer is from, except that it's a place where there's no Leica dealer, or where the dealer can't get any M9s now. Incidentally, the Bangkok used camera dealer did not buy the camera but only sold it on my behalf to a customer who occasionally visits Thailand. —Mitch/Paknampran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 10, 2010 Share #11 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, Just a couple of things. 1.- If your dealer in Paris is "La Maison du Leica", I live just around the corner and I know Jean-Marc well. If you want I can ask him a duplicate of the invoice and I will send it to you. Send me a PM if I can do something for you. 2.- Concerning Solms, I guess the name of person you're dealing with... In fact, you cannot generalize: Some people at Customer Service are very helpful all the time, others depends on the day. They have never asked me the original bill or whatever when I deal with them directly but, if I use my dealer (La Maison du Leica), Jean-Marc does... and he knows I've bought the items there... Finally, if I followed correctly your story, the thing that makes me feel incomfortable is the fact you're selling a defective camera to someone. I don't think that's very honest. I can understand you're fed up with the camera but you should get a replacement first from Solms or get it repaired and then sell it. Excuse me if I missed something or I got something wrong. Bonne chance quand même ! ArtZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2010 Share #12 Posted March 10, 2010 Andy, gimme a break! —Mitch/Paknampran Maybe the title is a tad to provocative for that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #13 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, Just a couple of things. 1.- If your dealer in Paris is "La Maison du Leica", I live just around the corner and I know Jean-Marc well. If you want I can ask him a duplicate of the invoice and I will send it to you. Send me a PM if I can do something for you. 2.- Concerning Solms, I guess the name of person you're dealing with... In fact, you cannot generalize: Some people at Customer Service are very helpful all the time, others depends on the day. They have never asked me the original bill or whatever when I deal with them directly but, if I use my dealer (La Maison du Leica), Jean-Marc does... and he knows I've bought the items there... Finally, if I followed correctly your story, the thing that makes me feel incomfortable is the fact you're selling a defective camera to someone. I don't think that's very honest. I can understand you're fed up with the camera but you should get a replacement first from Solms or get it repaired and then sell it. Excuse me if I missed something or I got something wrong. Bonne chance quand même ! ArtZ Merci, mon vieux. No, I'm haven't sold a defective camera at all — I wouldn't do that. My original M9 was replaced by a new camera, but my old top and bottom plates were put on that new camera. The buyer was made fully aware of the the situation. —Mitch/Paknampran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #14 Posted March 10, 2010 Maybe the title is a tad to provocative for that?Jaap, I really wanted the title to be provocative because I think that Leica management need to change the attitude of both Leica Service and Customer Support in order to instill the idea that "The Customer Might be Right." —Mitch/Paknampran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 10, 2010 Share #15 Posted March 10, 2010 ...the thing that makes me feel incomfortable is the fact you're selling a defective camera to someone. I don't think that's very honest. I can understand you're fed up with the camera but you should get a replacement first from Solms or get it repaired and then sell it... Missed that. I guess Mitch disclosed those defects to the buyer no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #16 Posted March 10, 2010 Missed that. I guess Mitch disclosed those defects to the buyer no?As I wrote in the last posting above, the camera I received was indeed a new camera on which the top and bottom plates from my original M9 were installed. There should not be anything wrong with it. —Mitch/Paknampran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose_Salcedo Posted March 10, 2010 Share #17 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, In all fairness, Leica is just following a procedure that is normal to ensure that a given product is legitimate, and I see no reason to consider this a "horror story". There are many instances in life where you need original paperwork to accompany the item - even a person -, to gain entry into some territory - think passport - or gain access to some service - think warranty -. You should consider the original paperwork as the equipment passport, and you need to make that available to the buyer when you sell something. You need to do that with a car, obviously... so why not with a camera? After all, it is a simple procedure: if you want to sell something, passing the original documentation to the buyer is not just a necessity in many instances as a courtesy in the other instances. I am sure that you will resolve the situation easily with a little good will. By the way, my impression of Leica Service is rather positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 10, 2010 Share #18 Posted March 10, 2010 Jose, no I don't think it's a normal way for Leica to proceed in this case: the camera has been back to Solms twice; there's an extensive file on this camera at Solms, which includes my signature. They know where I bought the camera and that I live in Bangkok. There is no reason that they should not accept a signed letter from me requesting transfer of ownership. There is no chance of fraud here. You are right: all that is necessary is a little good will, which hasn't been forthcoming from the person in Customer Support that I've been dealing with. In fact, this person simply didn't reply to my e-mail when I asked for understanding of the situation in which I didn't have access to my original document. Actually, this is not a problem for me: the buyer has bought the camera and paid for it; but I don't think he should have to pay to fix it, as the Customer Service person wrote, if something goes wrong during the warranty period. Leica would not be losing anything to show good will here. —Mitch/Parkanpran Barrier Series Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted March 10, 2010 Share #19 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, When Leica replaced the camera, you were in Bangkok, right? Didn't Leica Customer Service sent you a new document indicating the camera replacement with the new serial number? They have done that when they replaced my two M8. If you received your new camera in Bangkok, you should have also this document which replaces the old invoice and transfers the warranty from the camera you bought in Paris to the new one. That should be more than enough. If I were you, I would send an email (or call) to Herr Jörg Kaufmann (Head of Customer Service) asking for an explanation. Regards . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted March 10, 2010 Share #20 Posted March 10, 2010 Mitch, I think you should give to your buyer the originale warranty card . So this transaction will be finished . You can ask someone in Europe to send you the original ,do you ? In a world , where everything is suspicion and that paranoia is everywhere , such as identity cards or passports , that the airport's authorities ask us and ask again several times when we embarked on board's plane.... I think the after sales service is right to ask that the original must be furnished . The service where you have repaired your M9 and the service where they record for the guarantee is not the same I think .... Sorry for the trouble you are undergoing Good luck Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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