desertwindauh Posted February 10, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Whats with the silly loud sound following the shutter release? Sounds like a motorwinder advancing the film, but its a digital camera. OK, sure it was fun for the first photo but how do I silence it for good? My Canon G10 can operate on stealthy silent, so why can't my M9? I crave silent blissful operation of my M9, please help... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Hi desertwindauh, Take a look here Sweet Silence Please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 10, 2010 Share #2 Posted February 10, 2010 I for one agree with you about wanting a silent shutter, but this one has to be cocked. [added: in fact, i"ll rant a little -- at these prices a silent shutter should be the proud display of Leica's abilities!] If you use the discrete mode, you can alleviate the problem with some work, that is restrain the shutter until you can lower the camera to your lap or some such. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2010 Share #3 Posted February 10, 2010 I have the same feeling regarding my M8.2, having shot silent film Ms for decades. There have been many other forum threads on "wish lists" for digital Ms, and the request for a manual shutter recocking option has largely been met with derision, although some are in favor. For me, it's not the manual advance I miss so much (although some prefer the ergonomics of a thumb lever), but the silence it affords. I would love to have a silent advance, whether with or without a cocking lever. Discreet advance just doesn't do it for me. This noise is the single biggest irritant in my transition from film to digital Ms, even more than filters and crop factors, both of which I've quickly gotten over. If the M9 were silent, I likely would have traded my M8.2. Pet peeves can be expensive. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 10, 2010 Share #4 Posted February 10, 2010 Someone (c'mon LeiCanNikPan....) needs to give us an instant-on or instant-capture sensor. We need to get rid of the shutter. There's an ENORMOUS amount of money being spent on high-end and pro rigs. What the hell! Maybe Kodak can do this one. they've been asleep for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted February 10, 2010 Share #5 Posted February 10, 2010 Whats with the silly loud sound following the shutter release? Sounds like a motorwinder advancing the film, but its a digital camera. OK, sure it was fun for the first photo but how do I silence it for good? My Canon G10 can operate on stealthy silent, so why can't my M9? I crave silent blissful operation of my M9, please help... Mechanical recocking. That's all. Your Canon G10 is absolutely silent, but the mechanics of the M series cameras is quite a bit different. Even with the same kind of shutter, have you thought about the size differences of those two sensors/shutters? Hope this help to explain. BTW, as for my experience, nobody's able to hear your M9/M8.2/M8u shutters in a normal environment. OK you may need to shoot in a Church, I did it in the past with no problems at all. just my 2cents then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 10, 2010 Simple to obliterate - sell the camera and get a Digilux2... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwindauh Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted February 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maurizio Hi. I just find the noise annoying and I feel the attitude (of Leica) a tad too smug for my liking (the photos make up for a lot mind you). I just wonder if the noise actually means anything mechanical or is it just a noise. If it is just a noise, there must be a digital way to cancel it. Surely there must be Leica engineer who reads these posts as his/her day job who can reveal the answer. As for the lever, I got a Thumbs Up and all is good in the world again. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) The camera has a shutter and it has to be recocked. That is a mechanical thing, so it cannot be silent. Nor can it be surpressed digitally. I fail to see what that has to do with an attitude, smug or otherwise. Leica - and Copal, the builder of the shutter- have bent over backwards in an attempt to make the thing as silent as possible, following customer requests. But yes, you can still hear it. Edited February 10, 2010 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted February 10, 2010 Share #9 Posted February 10, 2010 I just wonder if the noise actually means anything mechanical or is it just a noise. If it is just a noise, there must be a digital way to cancel it. Surely there must be Leica engineer who reads these posts as his/her day job who can reveal the answer. Didn't you read all the replies above? The sound is a mechanical noise made by the mechanism that re-cocks the shutter in the camera. You can not get rid of the sound. Period. Unless you build something like the "Sorensson Soundblimp". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2010 Share #10 Posted February 10, 2010 Just to clarify...my issue is not the sound of the shutter release, but the sound of the motor that recocks the shutter. So, why couldn't this be mechanical...and just as "silent" as the film Ms? Yes, this might change other internal things due to size, etc...and may not be something that most people even want...but why isn't it possible technically? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 10, 2010 I'm sure it might be possible, after all the DMR and the RD1 have the option because they are based on film cameras, but it might not be to the taste of the majority of the users, and it might be quite difficult to find the space for the mechanism. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 10, 2010 Share #12 Posted February 10, 2010 I hate cocking levers other than my Rolleiflex TLR, which is very satisfying. That is why I ended up going on to a Contax G2 from my M4, rather than an M7 (nobody would give me a definitive answer at the time, on the back-focus issue on the motorised Konica RF with my Leica lenses). I had a Leicavit on my M4 for a while but it made it too big. I am not wholly convinced that Copal could not make the re-cocking motor quieter. There are lots of alternative motor technologies around now - piezo motors etc. I don't know if any of you have tried to listen to a Konica RF on silent mode. The noise it makes is almost imperceptible. I cannot remember who made the shutter/motor for it. I know it came from the same design bureau that did the G1/2. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2010 Share #13 Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) but it might not be to the taste of the majority of the users, and it might be quite difficult to find the space for the mechanism. Yep, exactly the two rebuttals I mentioned (in anticipation) in my post. Jeff Edited February 10, 2010 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted February 10, 2010 Share #14 Posted February 10, 2010 Simple to obliterate - sell the camera and get a Digilux2... The silent shutter is one of the main reasons I keep this camera. Glad to see its price is going up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwindauh Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted February 10, 2010 Didn't you read all the replies above? The sound is a mechanical noise made by the mechanism that re-cocks the shutter in the camera. You can not get rid of the sound. Period. Obviously not carefully enough. Tail between my legs. Red faced apologies to all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 10, 2010 Share #16 Posted February 10, 2010 Apologies gracefully accepted, no harm done. Welcome to forum, we don't bite as hard as it seems Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoody Posted February 10, 2010 Share #17 Posted February 10, 2010 Short of eliminating the shutter, the psychological impact of the sound could be lessened if the re-cocking process happened 2x or 3x faster. Easier said than done, I am sure. :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted February 10, 2010 Share #18 Posted February 10, 2010 Obviously not carefully enough.Tail between my legs. Red faced apologies to all. Sorry if it sounded to harsh. It was not my intention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 10, 2010 Share #19 Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) @desertwindauh - Check the M9's menus. On the default first page there is a setting for "Advance." If you set "Discreet", the motor that cocks the shutter will not operate until your take your finder off the shutter button. It is not much less noisy overall, but does separate the shutter noise from the cocking noise, and lets you slip the camera under your jacket or lower it to your side before allowing the cocking noise. It is, in fact, a mechanical motor, not an "audio file" simulated shutter sound. @ Jeff S: You don't say so specifically, but I guess you are asking for a wind lever? The motor already is "mechanical" in that it turns gears and levers to move the shutter back to ready position. A thumb-powered wind lever would be just a different kind of mechanical, turning similar gears (maybe more quietly). It is technically possible - the Epson R-D1 did it (sole example in a digital camera - the DMR having no wind of its own, but fitting on a film camera). Let's back up and start with the basic film-M shutter. Horizontal movement, rubberized silk curtains, spring-driven, with manual thumb-wind (external noisy motors optional for some cameras). Very quiet, but limited to 1/1000th and 1/50 flash sync. This is a very large mechanism. This link shows Nikon shutters, but Leica's are about the same. Nikon | Imaging Products | Vol. 10. History of the Nikon cameras and shutter mechanisms (Part I) Except in the M7 and MP, horizontal FP shutters are no longer used by anyone. The specs are just too limited for most of the marketplace, and the size (all those drums to wind the shutter curtains around) is a problem. Nikon last used one in the F3. Leica last used one in an SLR in the Leicaflex 2. I think Olympus OMs were the last SLR hold-outs. Enter the vertical blade shutter - Here's the M8's: http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/leicam8/Images/shutter.jpg More compact than the horizontal curtain shutter overall, syncs to 1/250, 1/8000th max speed - M8.2/u or M9 shutters are identical, just downrated to 1/4000th and 1/125 sync speed (and thus slightly quieter. More speed = more sound. Consider a bicycle compared to a Formula One car). It is cocked for the next shot via the silver lever at the bottom left. You can link that lever to a motor, your thumb, a steam engine, or a squirrel on a treadmill. Anything that will provide force to push it the right direction. When it comes to digital, as you suggest, size is important. There is a lot of digital stuff that has to be crammed into any digital camera, so the more compact the shutter, the better. Size includes whatever cocking drive is used - levers, motors, squirrels, etc. And a micro-motor sitting right beside the shutter takes up less space than a chain of levers and cams and gears linking to a thumb lever 3 inches away. Technically, it would be very possible to substitute either manual thumb cocking - or even the rubber/silk horizontal shutter of the film Ms - in a digital M. Doing so and retaining the M-sized body and all the digital hardware is another problem. Leica chose to favor M-like size and shape and handling over M-like silence. Edited February 10, 2010 by adan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 10, 2010 Share #20 Posted February 10, 2010 Actually, looking at the image of the M8 shutter, it occurs to me that a Leicavit-type bottom wind "trigger" could connect almost directly to that cocking arm very nicely, without much disruption to the rest of the camera's innards or stealing much internal space (it would add height to the camera as does any external Leicavit or motor). Some care would have to be taken with sealing (weather and dust), since bottom levers slide in an open slot several inches long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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