First m9 lens II

[Tulpenwahn]

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I have almost the same question as "dealrocker" in today's thread with the same title. I am 99 % sure that I am going to buy a M9 soon without having a lens so far. I would be willing to spend 2000 or even 3000 € on my first lens but only if it is really worth it.

 

I know that there are a lot of other threads about this topic and I have read quite a lot. But my questions are not completely answered yet:

 

1) New or second hand? The price gap sometimes is not really big. Usually I prefer new.

 

2) Are there differences between lens series? Let's say between older and newer lenses of the same type. Or are they pretty much the same?

 

3) I urgently need a good lens for low light photography. Is it possible to describe the differences between f1,0, f1,4, f2,0, and so on in ISO?

 

4) I am used to zoom lenses. Thus I think I have to do a lot of cropping. Better take a 24/28 mm lens or start with a 50 mm?

 

5) Leica or not Leica? Do you realise the differences as an amateur? What are the best lenses that are not made by Leica.

 

6) If second hand: is it possible to buy via ebay? Or another platform (I live in Germany)? Or better go to the Leica dealer?

 

7) I still do not completely understand the problem of coding lenses. I would be thankful for a link to read more about this.

 

I have to add:

 

I prefer to do street photography, architecture, landscapes. Maybe it will change with the M9. Portrait might become a new thing for me.

 

I am new to rangefinder photography (I learnt it from my father when I was a child, but no experience since then), but quite ambitious. And I don't think as a first-time user you should take the second or third best lens if the best is an option. But, of course, financial resources are not unlimited.

 

Any advice is highly welcomed. Thank you in advance.

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[jklotz]

Man those are some loaded questions ; )

 

The problem I see is you want:

 

1) fast

2) wide (architecture, landscapes)

3) normal to normal wide (street photography)

 

With your budget, I'd consider 2 lenses: The Leica 24/3.8, which is $2395 and the Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM, which is about $1000. Both are optically excellent, the ziess is fast (relatively) and is a great focal length for the M9. The Leica is slow, but for architecture and landscape, during daylight hours, should be fine. In low light, you'll need a little tripod (which is good practice for that type of work anyway...). Any wider than the 24 and you'll need to deal with those silly external finders, which, IMHO, puts you back in DSLR territory, as I can't be bothered with such.

 

As you learn more about it, you can always sell them for not much of a loss, and get something else.

 

That's my opinion. Hope it helps.

[UliWer]

I hope you don't mind when I say, that answering all your questions would mean writing a handbook. Perhaps it's easier for you to start with the M9-manual, try to look at the websites of Erwin Puts and/or Sean Read or to look for a real handbook about the M-system, perhaps from Osterloh.

 

I try just to respond on your question No. 4:

 

The M-system with a rangefinder rules out to use a zoom lens. Rangefinder photography means to frame your motive, keeping an eye on the surroundings, on what you want to have in and out of focus and decide wether to take the photo or not. Therefore I should never take a photo having in mind that I'll crop it to get the frame or composure I want. Of course everybody does crop to a certain extent for correcting or highlighting parts of what he sees in the file. But I think it would be a waste of the possibilities a M9 with its lenses might give you, if you just used a 24 or 28 or 50mm lens not deciding what you want to photograph when you take the picture but only later when you crop.

[ggits]

I was in the same situation. Had to start from "zero".

I gave myself following question:

a) Would I like to shut indoor with no flash and portrait ? Yes ( 1.4/50 mm or 2/75 mm - here the best was the Summilux)

Shooting landscape, buildings, streets etc ? Yes. I was used to zoom from Canon and most of my shots was between 21mm to 50mm. However every time I shot people I did not like to be at closed positions. I like the distance. So they was all between 50 to 85 mm.

 

So based upon that my decision was clear: No. 1' lens Summilux 1,4/50 - No. 2' will be 2/28 and No. 3' would be 75mm ( maybe 90 mm).

In dec I got my M9 & Summilux 1,4/50

(And ..... in jan my second lens CV Ultron 1,7/35 silber - second hand ! )

[Alnitak]

I have almost the same question as "dealrocker" in today's thread with the same title. I am 99 % sure that I am going to buy a M9 soon without having a lens so far. I would be willing to spend 2000 or even 3000 € on my first lens but only if it is really worth it.

 

I know that there are a lot of other threads about this topic and I have read quite a lot. But my questions are not completely answered yet:

 

1) New or second hand? The price gap sometimes is not really big. Usually I prefer new.

 

If you prefer new, then buy new. No buyer's remorse. I also generally prefer new, and almost all of my Leica lenses are new. I did buy a few used ones, either for models that are discontinued, or for lenses I don't imagine I will use much (like the 135mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt).

 

2) Are there differences between lens series? Let's say between older and newer lenses of the same type. Or are they pretty much the same?

There can be differences. The best place to learn more about this is Erwin Puts' website or books. There are fairly substantial differences between the older non-ASPH designs and the modern ASPH designs. Some prefer the look of one over the other.

 

3) I urgently need a good lens for low light photography. Is it possible to describe the differences between f1,0, f1,4, f2,0, and so on in ISO?

 

Yes, it is. Full stops in aperture equal full stops in ISO. So, if you can open up one stop, you can shoot the same shutter speed at one full stop of ISO lower. This is pretty basic stuff and if you want to learn more, there are lots of resources for doing so.

 

4) I am used to zoom lenses. Thus I think I have to do a lot of cropping. Better take a 24/28 mm lens or start with a 50 mm?

 

If you are used to zoom lenses then you might consider finding a used Tri-Elmar 28-35-50. They are discontinued but can be found used. It's not a true zoom, but rather three primes in one. It's an excellent lens and very practical on the M9, but a bit slow at f/4.

 

5) Leica or not Leica? Do you realise the differences as an amateur? What are the best lenses that are not made by Leica.

 

Well, it depends. Zeiss and Voigtlander (Cosina) make some great lenses. Differences in coatings and design will yield some differences. In general, the Leica lenses--particularly the newer ASPH designs--are the sharpest wide open, and the sharpest in the corners. The Zeiss lenses tend to have a different look due to the coatings, that some would call more "3D" due to enhanced micro-contrast. Some of the wide Zeiss lenses have a little less distortion than the Leica wides. The Voigtlander lenses are a fabulous deal. The 50/1.5 Nokton for example, is very close to the quality of the 50/1.4 Summilux ASPH, at a fraction of the price. They tend to be lower contrast, but that can be adjusted in post-processing. They also tend to be less sharp in the corners in the faster lenses. However, the construction quality is very good, and stopped down one stop you would often be very hard-pressed to tell them apart from the much more expensive Leica and Zeiss offerings. One final note: All three have somewhat different bokeh, or out of focus rendering. The Leica lenses tend to have a very smooth bokeh, as do the Zeiss, although the character is just a little different. The Voigtlander lenses have a slightly more defined bokeh that some dislike.

 

6) If second hand: is it possible to buy via ebay? Or another platform (I live in Germany)? Or better go to the Leica dealer?

 

I buy on eBay. Just buy from a reputable dealer. The local dealer is OK if the prices and selection are the same, but they rarely are. The advantage of the local dealer is that you can actually hold the lens in hand and check it out.

 

7) I still do not completely understand the problem of coding lenses. I would be thankful for a link to read more about this.

 

Long topic. I would suggest paying the $30 USD cost to join Sean Reid's site (http://www.reidreviews.com) and read up. Not only will you learn about lens coding, and why its important (particularly on wide lenses), but you will also learn a lot about the camera, and can read very exhaustive reviews of many lenses, including comparisons between the Zeiss, Leica and Voigtlander equivalents. It's perhaps the single best digital rangefinder resource on the Internet.

 

I have to add:

 

I prefer to do street photography, architecture, landscapes. Maybe it will change with the M9. Portrait might become a new thing for me.

 

I am new to rangefinder photography (I learnt it from my father when I was a child, but no experience since then), but quite ambitious. And I don't think as a first-time user you should take the second or third best lens if the best is an option. But, of course, financial resources are not unlimited.

 

Any advice is highly welcomed. Thank you in advance.

 

Take the time to learn the differences between rangefinder shooting and SLR shooting. It's a different way of seeing, framing and shooting. It doesn't work for everyone. That said, the rangefinder is an excellent choice for the type of shooting you prefer.

 

Finally, if I was to recommend a single lens, it would be the 35mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH. It's superb, fast for low-light shooting like you want, and a great focal length for architecture, landscapes and street shooting. A wider lens is a bit better for architecture, but wider lenses at f/1.4 are out of your budget. If you have a little more to spend, you might consider a different setup with two lenses.

 

BTW, you should look at the most common focal lengths you shoot on the DSLR to determine what you most likely will want on the M9. The change in cameras is unlikely to change your focal length preferences. For example, on my Canon gear, I generally stuck with 24mm, 50mm and 85mm. On my M9, I now shoot mostly with my 24mm, 50mm and 75mm.

 

Good luck!

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

There have been some valuable long answers in this thread. I'll give a short one:

Get a Summicron 35 asph.

[lars_bergquist]

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Nobody but yourself can decide what focal lengths you need. (You will probably ultimately want most of them -- but 'want' and 'need' are two different things.) But I can briefly answer some of your other questions:

1) New or second hand? The price gap sometimes is not really big. Usually I prefer new.

Leica lenses are normally exceeedingly well built. Unless the specimen is very old, or has been abused, or suffer some other ailment such as fungal growth, you can buy used with confidence. You can guard against getting a bad'un by purchasing from a reputable dealer, preferably one you do have a personal relationship with (so he doesn't want to lose your custom).

2) Are there differences between lens series? Let's say between older and newer lenses of the same type. Or are they pretty much the same?

Yes, there are differences. Leica M lenses have been designed and made for more than half a century now. During that time, technology has advanced. Current lenses do normally have greater resolution (ability to render extremely fine detail), contrast and resistance to flare and internal reflections, than older designs. Many older lenses are nevertheless excellent even in modern terms, and there are photographers who desire them exactly for their difference.

3) I urgently need a good lens for low light photography. Is it possible to describe the differences between f1,0, f1,4, f2,0, and so on in ISO?

Those speed differences are equivalent to halvings/doublings of ISO or shutter speed. A subject shot at 2.0 and 1/125th and ISO 500 could also be shot at 1.4 and 1/125th and ISO 250, or 2.0 and 1/500 and ISO 1000, for instance. So, doubling ISO, you can either stop the lens down by one f-stop, or use a twice as fast shutter speed.

4) I am used to zoom lenses. Thus I think I have to do a lot of cropping. Better take a 24/28 mm lens or start with a 50 mm?

Experienced M photogs don't crop much. You learn to see with the 'eyes' that are appropriate to the field of the lens you happen to have mounted. They also usually have the apropriate lens mounted when they wade in, because they know what different focal lengths do, and use a lens that fits the situation.

5) Leica or not Leica? Do you realise the differences as an amateur? What are the best lenses that are not made by Leica.

Leica lenses are generally superb, optically or mechanically. Pay less, get less. This said, Zeiss lenses for the M are also very good indeed at about half the price. Cosina/'Voigtländer' lenses usually cost about a quarter. They can be perfectly serviceable, but there is an element of luck here.

6) If second hand: is it possible to buy via ebay? Or another platform (I live in Germany)? Or better go to the Leica dealer?

I have answered that question under (1) above.

7) I still do not completely understand the problem of coding lenses. I would be thankful for a link to read more about this.

The 6-bit 'bar code' in the bayonet tells the camera what lens is mounted. It can then compensate for the light fall-off or colour shifts that different lenses exhibit in different amounts. It can also note in the EXIF data of the image files what lens was used. -- The M9 has a menu list where you can manually identify older lenses that are not available factory-coded. This is not very practical for regular use, however -- you will goof sooner or later, and it slows down lens changes. So you will definitely want coded optics. Many old lenses can be coded after the fact, by Leica or independent technicians.

 

Welcome to the gang. The old man from the Age of Film

[adli]

There have been some valuable long answers in this thread. I'll give a short one:

Get a Summicron 35 asph.

 

I second that. Great starting lens.

[wlaidlaw]

I second that. Great starting lens.

 

You would never be unhappy with a Summicron 35. The chance of a less than good one are very low with this lens. If you like high contrast, the Zeiss 35/f2 Biogon is another excellent choice at quite a bit lower price point. If you are prepared to take a risk or get a very firm sale or exchange agreement from your dealer, a second-hand 35/1.4 Summilux can be wonderful but an appreciable proportion of these have either serious back-focus or severe aperture shift. I love my 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar (MATE) but it is too slow as your only lens. If you do get one, make sure it is a V2, as the mount is much more robust. If I just had to have two lenses, they would be the 35 Lux and MATE.

 

Wilson

[Ecar]

Cron 35 ASPH would also be my first personal choice, but if you do a fair bit of architecture, then the Cron 28 ASPH may make more sense. In this case, you could also use it for street - and perhaps crop as needed:eek:

If you are unsure, you could get both cheap CV 28 and CV 35 from the bay and see which focal length you like best before buying new Leica glass.

[ppolla]

I second that. Great starting lens.

 

I double second that...I was in the same situation and got the 35 summicron, and love it....my next lens will be a 50mm or 75mm...

 

P

[James R]

There have been some valuable long answers in this thread. I'll give a short one:

Get a Summicron 35 asph.

 

 

+1 It was the first lens I bought and still the most used. I next purchased a 50 1.4 Summilux and finalized my kit with a 90 Summicron. I'm loving the 90. The 50 great, but the 35 fits my eye better.

 

I guess the first step is getting the M9.

[Jeff S]

Agree with 35 Summicron asph as a great start. And, agree with subscribing here...Welcome to ReidReviews

 

Remember, you can (often) still zoom with your feet.

 

Jeff

[gwelland]

There are two absolutely safe recommendations for any M9 buyer:

 

35/2 Summicron ASPH

50/1.4 Summilux ASPH (or 50/2 Summicron IMHO too)

 

Finding a 35/2 Summicron is easy. Finding a new 50/1.4 Summilux is a bit of a challenge right now, perhaps comparable to finding an M9 actually.

[Tulpenwahn]

Thanks a lot so far. It's amazing how helpful this forum is.

 

I already had subscribed to Sean Reid, but did not know the Erwin Puts' site. I hope to get the M9 on the day after tomorrow (a Leica dealer told me that it is already there). So I urgently need a lens to start. If anyone living in Berlin or Hamburg (Germany) has an option please let me know via PM.

[gib_robinson]

I double second that...I was in the same situation and got the 35 summicron, and love it....my next lens will be a 50mm or 75mm...

 

P

 

No better choice I can think of. Superb lens. All purpose. I spent a long time with an M2 + 35, 50 'chrons.

[tategoi]

I already had subscribed to Sean Reid, but did not know the Erwin Puts' site.

 

Tao of Leica at Home

 

Congrats. My first is 35 f2. Now I am looking for 50 f1.4 but no luck so far.