Leica Glass

[lct]

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Interesting. The only lens I own that seems to carry any such code is an old 135mm Elmarit. My 28mm Summicron ASPH, 35mm Summilux ASPH, 50mm Summilux ASPH...

My 50/1.4 asph is a 51.4mm lens ("14").

[giordano]

Interesting. The only lens I own that seems to carry any such code is an old 135mm Elmarit. My 28mm Summicron ASPH, 35mm Summilux ASPH, 50mm Summilux ASPH and 90mm Elmarit-M do not have them (the v.4 35mm Summicron is away for six-bit coding). When did Leitz/Leica abandon this practice?

 

FWIW my v4 35mm Summicron doesn't have one.

 

Other questions are When did Leitz/Leica begin this practice, and Why?

 

None of the lenses shown on the current Leica-Camera website seem to have it. Nor is it visible in the illustrations in the 1975 "General Catalogue". And I'll hazard a guess that these codes were only ever used on range-finder coupled lenses (or rather focusing mounts) where the optical unit unscrews in one piece.

[jaapv]

Is there a reference source where we can find out exactly what those cryptical codes mean?

 

The old man from the Age of he Enigma

There is a list and an explanation in Erwin Puts' Leica Lens Compendium.

[jaapv]

FWIW my v4 35mm Summicron doesn't have one.

 

Other questions are When did Leitz/Leica begin this practice, and Why?

 

None of the lenses shown on the current Leica-Camera website seem to have it. Nor is it visible in the illustrations in the 1975 "General Catalogue". And I'll hazard a guess that these codes were only ever used on range-finder coupled lenses (or rather focusing mounts) where the optical unit unscrews in one piece.

 

 

The Apo-Summicron 90 asph has it. Mine is marked "10" Meaning 91.0. (The explanation given earlier is not wholly correct)

[lct]

FWIW my v4 35mm Summicron doesn't have one.

Other questions are When did Leitz/Leica begin this practice, and Why?...

My 35/2 IV has one as well as various 50mm to 280mm lenses from the sixties to 2004. The aim is to show the precise focal length of the lens i guess but don't ask me why.

[giordano]

My 35/2 IV has one as well as various 50mm to 280mm lenses from the sixties to 2004.

 

That rules out my theory that it's to do with removable lens heads.

[lct]

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That rules out my theory that it's to do with removable lens heads.

Yes my Elmar 50/2.8 from 1961 has one as well as a Tele-Elmarit 90mm and both Lux asph and last pre-asph 50/1.4.

[Xmas]

Part of the reason was the focusing mechanisms were made different to track a number of focal lengths, so a 51.0 mm lens would be assembled with a 51.0 focus mechanism. They used to file them by hand to be even more exact.

 

A user with a visoflex lens would need to order a rangefinder focusing mount to match his lens optical length exactly, if he wanted the rangefinder to be within production tolerances.

 

If you got a Noct, they recommended you sent the body back to be set within tolerance.

 

Think they moved to tolerance control later.

 

Noel

[lars_bergquist]

My 35/2 IV has one as well as various 50mm to 280mm lenses from the sixties to 2004. The aim is to show the precise focal length of the lens i guess but don't ask me why.

Correction: Both my 50mm Summilux ASPH and my 90mm Elmarit are coded -- I was looking for engraved code numbers, but they are printed in white ... though very small. Went to my optician after this but it seems to be the mind, not the eyes.

 

The old man from the Age Before Progressive Specs

[wizard]

Sorry folks, had been away yesterday. Many Leitz/Leica lenses have these little two digits showing the exact focal length, older ones and also current ones. And not only rangefinder lenses, but also R-lenses, although Leica stopped engraving these little numbers into R lenses quite a while ago. Older R lenses, however, bear those numbers.

 

It is true that lenses having a focal length shorter than 50mm usually NOT have these numbers, but there may be exceptions to the rule. I was surprised to read above that a version IV Summicron 35 has them, as I have so far never seen a lens of this type bearing these numbers (nor any other 35mm lens if I recall correctly).

 

As to the reason for putting these numbers onto the lens barrel, I was told that you have to use slightly different helicoils depending on the exact focal length in order to achieve correct focus movement with a rangefinder camera, so you have to match an optical system with a given focal length to a corresponding focussing helicoil. While that explains why they put these little numbers on rangefinder lenses, it fails to explain why some of the R lenses also had them.

 

And Jaap, what exactly do you think is wrong with the explanation given above by giordano?

 

Best,

 

Andy

[ho_co]

The practice was only necessary for lenses 50mm and longer. I'm also surprised to hear that some 35mm lenses exist with the engraving.

 

With older designs, it was necessary to match the focal length of the lens head with its mount. All DR Summicrons are (IIRC) 51.9 mm, because only one mount was made for the Dual-Range. Any 50mm Summicron whose actual focal length was not 51.9 mm was automatically ineligible to become a 50mm DR.

 

With current designs and procedures, lenses are for the most part their design focal length when finished. Therefore there's no need to engrave the actual focal length.

 

It's also interesting that some R lenses also included the designation, despite the fact that they were focused visually rather than by rangefinder linkage, as Andy said. I've never heard an explanation. Probably just 'tradition'?

 

 

(Gee, my apology. I accidentally responded before reading to the end of the thread, and see that most of what I've said was already covered. )

[lct]

...Older R lenses, however, bear those numbers....

Would you know which ones by chance? None of mine shows those numbers so far.

...I was surprised to read above that a version IV Summicron 35 has them, as I have so far never seen a lens of this type bearing these numbers (nor any other 35mm lens if I recall correctly)...

I did not know that my 35/2 IV is that rare. When i bought it 20+ years ago most of my M lenses had those numbers already.

 

[jaapv]

 

And Jaap, what exactly do you think is wrong with the explanation given above by giordano?

 

Best,

 

Andy

Nothing, I just misread his post. I guess the bit about the engraving error confused me but apart from these actual mm numbers, there exist also code numbers, which were used on the Elmar 50, from 2 through 8, each step indicating an 0.3 mm increase.

[Michael Hiles]

Leica has an unparalled expertise in the field and has had the luck to employ a series of the most brilliant lens designers the world has ever seen. Barnack-Mandler-Karbe.

 

Don't neglect Max Berek. He designed most the the legendary lenses up o about 1949.

[wizard]

Would you know which ones by chance? None of mine shows those numbers so far.

 

My first version Summicron-R 50 has them (16), my second version Summilux-R 50 has them (19), my second version Macro-Elmarit-M 60mm has them (lens located elsewhere, so I can't check which numbers), and I believe older versions of the Summilux-R 80 had them, too (mine hasn't, as it is a relatively new lens). Also, I seem to recall that the 135mm R lenses had these numbers. Not sure about the 180mm, have to check my own one, which however may be too young to still have them.

 

And btw, I would say your Summicron 35mm is not a version IV, but instead a version II or III. I do not believe version IV Summicrons with those numbers exist.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[masjah]

My first version Summicron-R 50 has them (16), my second version Summilux-R 50 has them (19), my second version Macro-Elmarit-M 60mm has them (lens located elsewhere, so I can't check which numbers), and I believe older versions of the Summilux-R 80 had them, too (mine hasn't, as it is a relatively new lens). Also, I seem to recall that the 135mm R lenses had these numbers. Not sure about the 180mm, have to check my own one, which however may be too young to still have them.

 

And btw, I would say your Summicron 35mm is not a version IV, but instead a version II or III. I do not believe version IV Summicrons with those numbers exist.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Andy, yes, I've got a first generation 135/2.8 R lens, which carries the numbers.

[lct]

Looks like we have not the same lenses. My 50/2, 60/2.8, 135/2.8 and 180/3.4 show no numbers. Don't have Summiluxes. And yes what you see above is a 35/2 IV. Having bought it 20+ years ago i begin to know it a bit.

 

My first version Summicron-R 50 has them (16), my second version Summilux-R 50 has them (19), my second version Macro-Elmarit-M 60mm has them (lens located elsewhere, so I can't check which numbers), and I believe older versions of the Summilux-R 80 had them, too (mine hasn't, as it is a relatively new lens). Also, I seem to recall that the 135mm R lenses had these numbers. Not sure about the 180mm, have to check my own one, which however may be too young to still have them.

And btw, I would say your Summicron 35mm is not a version IV, but instead a version II or III. I do not believe version IV Summicrons with those numbers exist....

[jaapv]

Don't neglect Max Berek. He designed most the the legendary lenses up o about 1949.

Which I meant....

[peter_n]

Now you've got me looking... I've got these numbers on my Summilux 50 pre-ASPH, Summilux 50 ASPH (LHSA version), Tele-Elmarit 90 (thin), Summicron 90 pre-ASPH, Tele-Elmar 135, but not on the Komura 200.

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Hallo,

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[lars_bergquist]

Now you've got me looking... [ ... ] but not on the Komura 200.

 

Zeiss ZM lenses do not use them, either. It's a Leica thing.

 

The old man with the (non-alcoholic) screwdriver