Toying with the idea of returning to M photography.

[Eoin]

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Hi all,

 

I've been following your progress with the M9 and to tell the truth, I've missed the "look" of images I've shot previously with my long sold M8.

 

The problems I had with my M8 (sensor lines twice and a few other issues) are still fresh in my mind, as are the wonderful images I took with it and the 28 Summicron Asph, 50 Summilux Asph and 90 Summicron Pre Asph.

 

I had problems focusing about 30% of the time due to eyesight that requires a +2.5 in my shooting eye. I tended to use a +3 diopter and not use my glasses when shooting. It was a PIA to be honest and I never really liked flipping my glasses off and on to review images or change settings.

 

Without wishing to attract flaming, I've been very happy in the mean time using my Sony a900 and the delicious Zeiss ZA lenses. But truth be told, while the Sony/Zeiss deliver in every respect, I am missing the ultra small package that I can take anywhere and of course I've never been able to replicate the look I got with the Leica glass on the CCD M8. I don't plan to ditch my current equipment but, add a more compact solution for when times just don't suit a dSLR.

 

I've been reading of your early experiences with the M9, the superlatives in which you describe the M9 and the similar look of images taken on either a M8 or M9.

Yet, I am cautious. I read of continuing problems with older M8 shutters which I believe the M9 uses the same shutter, I read of sensor line problems in M9's like I had with my M8. and now the stress fractures on the cover glass that seems to be appearing on a few M9s. Yet I'm still not put off the idea. I know Solms service will take care of any issues that may arise should my luck run out.

 

Now, taking all the above as read, I'm curious how you got on moving from 8 to 9?.

How is the viewfinder, any bigger or better?. What are 35mm frames like with glasses on?

How did your lenses perform on FF?.

How did you cope with the less DOF on FF compared to the crop of the M8?, do you use smaller apertures?.

How has you lens lineup changed?.

I used 28,50,90 on the M8 and plan 35,50 & 90 on a M9

Leaving aside high ISO, I tended to shoot 50% @ ISO 320 and 25% @ ISO 640. Sometimes 640 gave noise in the shadows, how has the M9 been as ISO 640?.

 

Some insight to the above would be appreciated, In the mean time, Happy new year to you all.

[scottwallick]

What are 35mm frames like with glasses on?

 

I can see *just* beyond the 35mm framelines. Very usuable.

 

how has the M9 been as ISO 640?.

 

My experience has been, with shutters down to 1/15th at least, ISOs up to 800 have little noise.

[nryn]

Eoin,

 

It's always good to see you make an appearance. Happy new year to you.

 

I'll answer your questions directly. For your reference, I always wear glasses, even while shooting.

 

How is the viewfinder, any bigger or better?. What are 35mm frames like with glasses on?

 

It's not any bigger or better from what I can tell. It does seem more "open" in respect to the framelines, but that's of course because the framelines have expanded due to full frame. a 35mm frame on the M9 is roughly equivalent to the 28mm on the M8 (I just checked). And the 50 is no longer a small patch in the middle of the viewfinder; it occupies a good portion (closer to the 35 on the M8). I do find focusing on the M9 much easier, though it's hard to tell how much of that is technique and how much of that is the absence of crop factor (which I think amplified focusing errors).

 

If I move my head to see the corners of the viewfinder, I can see the 28mm framelines with glasses on. Just looking through the viewfinder with glasses, I can easily see the 35mm lines and just beyond as well.

 

 

How did your lenses perform on FF?.

I have all Leica glass except the CV15mm, which I haven't yet shot on the M9. All lenses, without exception, are superb.

 

How did you cope with the less DOF on FF compared to the crop of the M8?, do you use smaller apertures?.

On average I'm 2.8 or below. This was true on the M8 and remains true on the M9. Less DOF is generally good for my photography, though I admit I haven't done what I consider "real" photography for a few years now (I'm busy raising a kid )

 

How has you lens lineup changed?. I used 28,50,90 on the M8 and plan 35,50 & 90 on a M9

I thought it would change significantly. On the M8 my "go-to" combo was the 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux. I figured this would either go 35/75 or 24/50. Well I've kept the 50 and love the 35 on the M9. The 35 feels wideangle (as it should be!) and the 50--I can't begin to tell you how much more useful this lens is on the M9 for me. I never would have taken the 35 and the 50 together with the M9--now I'm liking this as my 2-lens kit.

 

Leaving aside high ISO, I tended to shoot 50% @ ISO 320 and 25% @ ISO 640. Sometimes 640 gave noise in the shadows, how has the M9 been as ISO 640?.

 

My limit on the M8 was 640, and I knew how to expose well for that. My new limit with the M9 is, depending on the shot, 800 or 1250. At 640, I'd say the M9 is much like the M8 at 320.

 

---

 

My biggest issue right now is the M9's white balance, which is a bit of a pain to deal with in post. But it can be dealt with, and that's the good news. Right now it's a lot like the early stages of having the M8--no official Aperture profile for the M9 and Leica still has a few things to sort out in firmware. But I'm really happy with the M9. I don't regret my time with the M8 at all, but shooting with the M9 feels like shooting with a rangefinder should (particularly in respect to focal length, but also in other respects).

 

Are you sure you can't learn to shoot with your glasses on? Maybe you could find a set of frames which work well for you while you're shooting.

[Overgaard]

Eoin,

 

My biggest issue right now is the M9's white balance, which is a bit of a pain to deal with in post. But it can be dealt with, and that's the good news. Right now it's a lot like the early stages of having the M8--no official Aperture profile for the M9 and Leica still has a few things to sort out in firmware. But I'm really happy with the M9. I don't regret my time with the M8 at all, but shooting with the M9 feels like shooting with a rangefinder should (particularly in respect to focal length, but also in other respects).

 

Are you sure you can't learn to shoot with your glasses on? Maybe you could find a set of frames which work well for you while you're shooting.

 

If you carry and use a WhiBal or any grey card or white paper, and do Manual white balance, you will find that this is very fast to do - and that the colors will be very natural and clear in most cases.

The presets and auto wb on the M9 is not good enough - at least not compared with how pleasant the manual white balancing looks.

 

When the camera is set to manual white balancing and you want to update it, it's just two clicks on the set button, shoot the camera against the WhiBal and you're set. Very easy, and much easier to go from one manual to a new than from auto to manual. Not more work than changing the ISO setting.

[Overgaard]

As to the original posting, I just today wondered about how easy I get M shots in focus using either glasses, no glasses or screen glasses. And the viewfinder on the M doesn't ruin my eye focusing after hours of shooting as the SLR systems does.

 

The frame size I guess is a matter of habit. I can't see the full frame on a DSL either, and you just adjust to is by moving your eye.

 

As for ISO, the 800-1250 is the setting that works. I can shoot 800 without problems though I tend to stay at 200 ISO just out of habit

 

With the release of Lightroom 3 soon it seems the ISO can go even higher. And then we have firmware updates from Leica that will probably bring the ISO range even higher in the future.

[Hacker]

Welcome back Eoin.

 

I do not wear glasses, but I find the VF similar to the M9. For longer lenses, it is easier to focus as the framelines go all the way to 135mm now.

 

At the moment, the widest aperture I have shot is f/1.2 on a 60mm Hexanon, and with the 1.4x VF add on, it is very easy to focus and the framing is easy to estimate (I do not like cropping photos, unless absolutely necessary).

 

I do not really think of the older, cropped 50 vs the FF 50mm when shooting. So my style has not changed, nor my lenses that I want to bring on a shoot. I still see ISO 640 with some noise.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

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Eoin,

 

One more user of glasses, I leave my glasses on pretty much permanently, and look through them when shooting. I have not diopter on the camera. the 35mm frameline is clear and easy to use, one of my favorite lenses. the 28mm on the other hand get a little harder.

 

.

[wilfredo]

Eoin,

 

I always shoot with my galsses on, no matter what camera I use. If that is too much of a challenge for you then perhaps the rangefinder is not for you, for the reasons you already stated.

 

My M8 has just been sent to Leica for a second time, so I understand your frustration and hesitation. From reading various threads on the M9 it seems most people get cameras with no issues, the lucky one's, and a few don't. I wish I could say you would have no issues with your M9 if you got one, but there seems to be more of a chance that there will be an issue with an expensive digital M than with any other major camera maker. I don't intend to ignite the fury of happy Leica fans with this (I remain a Leica user) but that seems to be reality for enough of us to raise concerns, hence I understand your hesitancy.

[jaapv]

You've been missed here, Eoin, please buy an M9

[Eoin]

Thanks for the time taken to reply guys, I was reluctant to pay a visit to a camera shop to try for my self, personal will power would quickly disappear. It's kind of putting off the inevitable I fear.

 

I may wait a little longer while I wait for proper profile support to emerge in Aperture or even Aperture X. Anyway it'll give me a little time to see if I can find a nice 35 'cron and 50 'lux in black paint at reasonable money.

 

I'm delighted to read you're enjoying using the M9 and wish you all "good light" for 2010.

 

Jaap, I've truly missed my M8 and lenses. As for the forum, I've been reading the treads but have little to contribute. Perhaps that will change in the future.

 

Note to myself, when they tell you to "never sell a Leica", listen to them!.

[andreas_thomsen]

hio eoin,

good to see u back.

maybe this could help you with your glasses.

cheers

andy

 

match Technical Services - E-Clypse EyeCup MAG

[5541Q]

maybe this could help you with your glasses.

 

match Technical Services - E-Clypse EyeCup MAG

 

unfortunately, it's of no help with glasses. in fact, it makes the situation worse. got one and will sell it again as i can't do without glasses.

[Jeff S]

unfortunately, it's of no help with glasses. in fact, it makes the situation worse. got one and will sell it again as i can't do without glasses.

 

They make 2 diameters, each with a different length (distance from eye to camera). Not sure which one you tried. I haven't tried either, but did research them at one point.

 

Jeff

[ChrisC]

.......... I tended to use a +3 diopter and not use my glasses when shooting. It was a PIA to be honest and I never really liked flipping my glasses off and on to review images or change settings..........

 

Eoin - Yes; welcome back. I too am lurking and can't contribute anything about the M9.

 

With regard to the above however, my eyesight's close focus is terrible and I really dislike photographing with glasses on, and like you I need focusing help to read menus etc.. My solution is to always carry an old focusing loupe for examining menu detail and histogram walls, and in this way I can work confidently without wearing glasses. If you are posh you could get the Hoodman focusing loupe and wear it around your neck, but there are cheap solutions that work well. I have recently taken off my fixed dioptre correction for the M8 and now use a 1.15 variable dioptre corrector from Japan Exposures and it's a great improvement for me.

 

................. Chris

[chris_tribble]

Eoin - I use a +3.5 diopter on the M9 (and did on the M8) - it's MUCH easier to live with on the M9 because the INFO screen is really clear and I don't need specs on to see it. In the past I had problems shooting manual in low light because I couldn't see the small numbers on the dial. I now use INFO to check where I am, and am then happy clicking up and down...

 

On other matters, both my M9's are (so far!) free of defect - and they both focus my lenses consistently and accurately (an improvement on the M8s). I've just got back from a week in the Lakes - using the 35 pre-asph v4 + a 135 Apo-Telyt for all the shots here. Given the cold weather + an aversion to carrying the DSLR equivalent + lenses I'd not have taken a camera with me - something I'd have regretted as there were some beautiful moments.

 

Isn't that why we use M's?

 

Evidence at: The English Lake District - more sheep ...

[Mike Rawcs]

Eoin,

like you, I keep looking at the M9 forum and, like you, keep seeing the list of problems that some people have experienced. Of course the majority of people don't have any problems and don't write anything! I've just purchased a new MP and I'm enjoying myself!

 

With regard to the viewfinder and glasses issue: I wear glasses and used to have problems seeing beyond the 35mm frame with M6s but found that, with the combination of the new, "bendy" titanium frames and thin variofocal lenses I can see out to 28mm - just. If I want more I just slip one arm off an ear and jam the lens closer to my eye. The frames bend and ... it works for me! Hope this helps.

 

 

Mike.