Okay..I'm now a convert.

[barjohn]

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The shot on the right is from the E-P1 and at 13 x 19 it is not stunning when printed. I owned the E-P1 for a while and the IQ is very good it isn't excellent. At $2K versus $800 the IQ has to be significantly better than usable.

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[lct]

Those are simple jpegs aren't they? A good raw converter would handle noise much better.

[TEBnewyork]

The shot on the right is from the E-P1 and at 13 x 19 it is not stunning when printed. I owned the E-P1 for a while and the IQ is very good it isn't excellent. At $2K versus $800 the IQ has to be significantly better than usable.

 

I guess, that is some of the difference, I'm generally not looking for a 13x19 print at ISO 3200. I am generally only shooting with ISOs at that level when in a night social setting and I would never have the need to use these images that large.

 

Even if the sensor was the same as those used in m4/3 what attracts me to the X1 is the user interface - specifically the very pared back way the camera was developed with the aperture and shutter on their own dials and the left hand buttons like the M8/M9

[peterb]

Both the images below were shot at ISO 3200. One of them is stunning and the other is not. If the X1 produces an image like the one on the left, I will call it stunning.

 

For ISO 3200, the 'noisy' shot the right made by the EP1 (cropped at 100% no less) isn't all that bad. Even in color! In BW it would clearly have a nice romantic quality that I personally like. (Remember what 3200 FILM images looked like?? Boy, we've come a long way. I think we too often forget though.)

 

Just curious, what camera made the ISO 3200 image on the left?

 

Here's a TMax 3200 image I found via Google.

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[peterb]

I guess, that is some of the difference, I'm generally not looking for a 13x19 print at ISO 3200. I am generally only shooting with ISOs at that level when in a night social setting and I would never have the need to use these images that large.

 

Even if the sensor was the same as those used in m4/3 what attracts me to the X1 is the user interface - specifically the very pared back way the camera was developed with the aperture and shutter on their own dials and the left hand buttons like the M8/M9

 

Terry, the X1's apparent (or potential) IQ along with the top deck simplicity were major factors in winning me over.

 

Night shots for me would typically be in BW for that 'film noir' look. And the max size I like is 12x18.

[AlanJW]

Why do you sound so negative, John? What's the point to compare a compact camera to a dSLR? Two DNG files are available here. I've been developping one of them with C1 here. What do you think of those files?

 

Barjohn likes to be the dark cloud. He gets upset when anyone likes their Leica and wants to do his best to deny anyone such pleasure. He wants everyone else to join him in a state of unhappiness and dissatisfaction. Up to you whether you pay attention.

[barjohn]

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Peter,

The image on the left was made with the Nikon D3x. I like many others is looking for a compact camera with DSLR IQ. Obviously, this has not been easy to achieve or camera vendors have been reluctant to make them for fear of cannibalizing DSLR sales that are the main stay of their business. I'm sure the largest part of the challenge is that as sensor size increases the need for a larger lens goes with it and the challenge is how to package it all in a small package. The alternative is to improve smaller sensors. We are seeing some of that in the 4/3rds arena and even in smaller sensors such as the sensor on the Canon S90. However, the same improvements are happening in larger sensors so the gap remains.

[bradhusick]

Peter,

The image on the left was made with the Nikon D3x. I like many others is looking for a compact camera with DSLR IQ. Obviously, this has not been easy to achieve or camera vendors have been reluctant to make them for fear of cannibalizing DSLR sales that are the main stay of their business. I'm sure the largest part of the challenge is that as sensor size increases the need for a larger lens goes with it and the challenge is how to package it all in a small package. The alternative is to improve smaller sensors. We are seeing some of that in the 4/3rds arena and even in smaller sensors such as the sensor on the Canon S90. However, the same improvements are happening in larger sensors so the gap remains.

 

 

Let me get this straight... you want D3X low light performance and resolution in a pocket camera? It's not gonna happen any time soon, so keep shooting with your Nikon.

[peterb]

you want D3X low light performance and resolution in a pocket camera? It's not gonna happen any time soon, so keep shooting with your Nikon.

 

Actually I'm not so sure about that. Sony (who makes the sensors for Nikon and methinks possibly the X1 too) may have a game changer of a sensor with their 'back-illuminated' CMOS Exmor-R design which puts all the little wires that used to be in FRONT of the silicon receptors (and apparently may have been responsible for much of the sensor noise) BEHIND it. Their goal is to make sensors that rival the low noise of the better champs that are out there. The first units out of the gate will be in small sensor cameras. But my guess is this technology will eventually be available for APS-C and full sized sensors too. And when that happens...well let's see who does what with it.

 

Sony unveils 'Exmor R' back-illuminated CMOS technology: Digital Photography Review