eleskin Posted November 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had a chance to test the M9 with my late generation f1.0 Noctilux at the Photo Expo Plus in New York City last month and I get the impression the M8 produces sharper files with this lens than the M9. I showed prints enlarged to 22"x17" to a friend of mine who is also a photographer, and he believes this is true as well, in fact, comparing the two cameras was like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I know many of the issues with the M8 were solved with the M9, but as a picture making machine, is the M9 really that far ahead of the M8? I think not. Posted here are some Noctilux pics to show what I mean. the first set was with the M9 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/104495-noctilux-on-m8-looks-sharper-than-on-m9/?do=findComment&comment=1125918'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 21, 2009 Posted November 21, 2009 Hi eleskin, Take a look here Noctilux on M8 looks sharper than on M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
eleskin Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share #2 Posted November 21, 2009 These are with the M8 and the Noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted November 21, 2009 These are more M8 shots Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/104495-noctilux-on-m8-looks-sharper-than-on-m9/?do=findComment&comment=1125924'>More sharing options...
phatnev Posted November 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 21, 2009 Not going to comment on the photos, as they are manual focus cameras, and the DOF at f1 is ridiculosly shallow so the chance for user error is considerable, but I am quite sure the M9 has an AA filter, and the M8 doesn't, therefore the M8 files should appear sharper than the M9 without any PP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
holgerf Posted November 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 22, 2009 Not going to comment on the photos, as they are manual focus cameras, and the DOF at f1 is ridiculosly shallow so the chance for user error is considerable, but I am quite sure the M9 has an AA filter, and the M8 doesn't, therefore the M8 files should appear sharper than the M9 without any PP. Sorry but there is no AA filter in the M9, just an IR/UV filter. Apart from that I support phatnev from my own experience with Nocti and M8. There will always be a certain amount of errors in focusing, so a substantial comparison of differences between M8 and M9 should consider: tripod and self-timer a static object focus bracketing to be sure to focos spot on Not a quick task at all. Best Holger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatnev Posted November 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted November 22, 2009 Sorry but there is no AA filter in the M9, just an IR/UV filter. Apart from that I support phatnev from my own experience with Nocti and M8. There will always be a certain amount of errors in focusing, so a substantial comparison of differences between M8 and M9 should consider: tripod and self-timer a static object focus bracketing to be sure to focos spot on Not a quick task at all. Best Holger My apologies. Its always much more fun to use the noct on any M9 body than compare sharpness I imagine the extra DOF might actually help with focusing on the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted November 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I can see the point in how the M9 and M8 have different depth of feild qualities. Here, the M8 may be a wonderful camera for Noctilux photography in that it gives much better focus accuracy while giving one that beautiful out of focus painterly background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 22, 2009 Would you have the EXIF data of your M9 pic above? Just curious as i suspect a slow shutter speed here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted November 22, 2009 but as a picture making machine, is the M9 really that far ahead of the M8? I think not. I agree, the M9 is not "that far ahead" but I'm not sure what you think your comparison shots prove. Still, if it makes you happy who am I to rain on your parade? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted November 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 22, 2009 There are a couple of things to consider here reg M8 vs M9. 1) FF sensor has different DOF. We can see this easily by comparing any FF camera against any crop sensor cameras. FF equals shallow DOF (when comparing against same lense in crop sensor camera) 2) comparing sharpness in hand held photos is pure speculation always. ultimate sharpness cannot be achieved handheld 3) crop sensor cameras only use the center most portion of the lense. for most lenses that is definately the sweet spot thus easily giving the idea of a sharper camera/lense combination 4) if I'm not mistaken, the M8 has better lp/mm ratio which easily can give the impression of sharper pictures as there's more information available for a certain area.. thus if you crop the exact same area of picture from M9 and M8 picture, the M8 actually has better resolution. So I agree with your oranges and apples comparison, but I'm not ready to give any verdicts on the sharpness. Someone should have M8 & M9 on a tripod shooting the exact same subject. Definately use a remote trigger for the shutter or self-timer. And to compare the same lense, one would need to move the M9 further behind to achieve the same FOV as the M8. That would also equalise pretty much the pixel count for the 100% crops as well.. And then make comparisons on sharpness. So it's not an easy task to get scientific info on this matter. And I'm quite sure I just missed something critical from my "lab setup"... The other thing is then the purely subjective evaluation or perception of sharpness.. some ppl will like the M9 and other will like the M8. Main thing is that hopefully many ppl will like Leicas I have (should I say will have, when it gets back from Solms) the M8. I would have propably gone for M9 if I had the money.. And that decisions would have been purely made on the idea that with the M9 all the lenses will be what they were designed to be and also for the possibility of better ISO performance. Just my 2c, Juha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Bébèrt Posted November 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 22, 2009 First picture I ever took with the new Noctilux 0.95 at a demo day. M9 but lens setting for Summilux ASPH 50, wide open 1/40sec. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/104495-noctilux-on-m8-looks-sharper-than-on-m9/?do=findComment&comment=1126350'>More sharing options...
lct Posted November 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 22, 2009 Looks indeed a bit soft compared to other FFs at slower apertures but 0.95 has no competition. Also, from raw files i've picked up on the web, i wonder if M9 pics don't need a bit of sharpening where M8's can do without. Just a guess though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted November 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 22, 2009 Sorry for doubting... but is the last shot (the man with the dog) shot at f1.0? The OOF area, and the DOF suggest me a smaller diaphram, but of course that's just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted November 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 22, 2009 I don't think it was stated in any of the posts above, if so, my apologies. But, have you tried any other lenses wide open with the same M8/M9 combo? There is the possibility that the M9 may need calibration whereas the M8 is spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted November 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 22, 2009 It would be helpful if you post the shutter speeds for all of these, as suggested. Also, first M8 sample does not look sharp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 22, 2009 It would be very surprising if the M8 were not sharper in this configuration. Especially the Noctilux has exponentially increasing aberrations out of the center. The M8 cuts of a large part of that. That was exactly the complaint about the 1.3 crop factor by users (KM25 springs to mind) that disliked that it took away the character of the lenses. The M9 by being FF has redressed that. Now repeat the test with for instance the Summilux 50 asph @ 4.0, or the ApoSummicron 90 asph @ 4.0. Then you will see a different outcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted November 23, 2009 Here is another pic with my daughter and the crop, all taken with the Noctilux and M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted November 23, 2009 here are the pics Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/104495-noctilux-on-m8-looks-sharper-than-on-m9/?do=findComment&comment=1128217'>More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted November 23, 2009 Share #19 Posted November 23, 2009 Here is another pic with my daughter and the crop, all taken with the Noctilux and M8 I can't see the pictures, BTW may you please indicate the aperture set of these and your prvious posts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted November 23, 2009 A crop of the pic Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/104495-noctilux-on-m8-looks-sharper-than-on-m9/?do=findComment&comment=1128219'>More sharing options...
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