jlindstrom Posted November 12, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm about to pull the trigger for a used M8 on friday. I guess I'm a bit spoiled at this neck of the woods since the local camera store has two of them available. What's tricky about this is that the price difference is only 100 euros between them...and both cameras are black. #1 has serial starting with 32xxxx and comes with extra battery + grip and has about 5700 shutter actuations (checked from "image unique id"). Seems to be in good condition with just a small spot on top plate where paint has weared off some. they're asking for 2199 euros (3166usd) #2 has only 161 shutter actuations!!!! but doesn't come with any extras. naturally in perfect as new condition. they're asking for 2299 euros (3310usd). They're also giving me 1150 euros (1656usd) for my year old Nikon D90+16-85vr lens in part ex. So I end up paying around 1000 euros on top of that.. What's giving me a slight headache is choosing one or the other.. I know the extras are worth some money but still I'm kind of leaning towards option #2 since it's almost brand new, at least thinking of the looks and the shutter count. I don't know the real age of either of the cameras. Which would you guys pick? //Juha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Hi jlindstrom, Take a look here about to pull the trigger for a 2nd hand M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wilfredo Posted November 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 12, 2009 I sounds like option #2 is virtually brand new. If the body looks mint, I would go with # 2. Do they provide any type of warranty? You can probably save even more on e-bay. I use a Luigi half case with a built in grip which I like for the look, protection of the body and LCD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted November 12, 2009 Share #3 Posted November 12, 2009 It's up to you. Do you actually want the grip? If yes, add the cost of buying one to the €2299 which I guess will take you to about €2450. Also add the cost of a spare battery. Say €2500 - meaning the real difference in price is say €2500 vs. €2199. If you don't particularly want the grip, exclude it from your calculations: in which case the real price difference is say €2350 vs. €2199. Also factor in the (small) value of any difference in warranty offered: a 5% chance of saving you €2000 in repair/replacement costs is worth only €100. 5700 shutter actuations is nothing to worry about. That's the easy bit. Only you can decide how important the cosmetic condition is to you. One can cruelly say it depends on whether you're buying the camera to use or to look at - but it really is a matter of how you feel about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanetomlane Posted November 12, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2009 I would go for number 2. The grip isn't a big deal and you don't know the condition of the spare battery. Just my two cents worth. __________________ Regards, Tom Photography by Tom Lane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 12, 2009 I'm with Tom, I've sold my grip two weeks after I bought it because it made me feel very uncomfortable, and the spare battery may be exhausted. Go for #2 (I'd like to know the guy who sells a camera like that after just 161 shutter actuations) and buy a brand new spare battery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EarlBurrellPhoto Posted November 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted November 12, 2009 Are these cameras official Leica ex-demo, come with official Leica warranties? If so then #2 might be a winner if the serial# is also 32xxxxx. Otherwise, I would unhesitatingly opt for #1, a late # benefits from lessons learnt on the early examples. I would consider a 310xxxx a beta version especially if it has only 161 actuations. Could be a host of nasty surprises awaiting you that were not discovered by the first owner who barely had it out of the box. The M8 was not sold as a package with the grip, thus the original baseplate ought to be included. BTW, how is the store determining the # of shutter actuations? Hopefully not by the file numbering, which can easily be reset. The true actuation count is not readable with basic image editing software such as comes with the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted November 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted November 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) ..........161 shutter actuations!!!! .............. I don't know the real age of either of the cameras. Juha - Repeat after you : "YOU DON"T KNOW THE AGE OF EITHER CAMERA!" And I don't trust that figure of 161. ................ Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falk61462 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2009 I'm about to pull the trigger for a used M8 on friday. I guess I'm a bit spoiled at this neck of the woods since the local camera store has two of them available. What's tricky about this is that the price difference is only 100 euros between them...and both cameras are black. #1 has serial starting with 32xxxx and comes with extra battery + grip and has about 5700 shutter actuations (checked from "image unique id"). Seems to be in good condition with just a small spot on top plate where paint has weared off some. they're asking for 2199 euros (3166usd) #2 has only 161 shutter actuations!!!! but doesn't come with any extras. naturally in perfect as new condition. they're asking for 2299 euros (3310usd). They're also giving me 1150 euros (1656usd) for my year old Nikon D90+16-85vr lens in part ex. So I end up paying around 1000 euros on top of that.. What's giving me a slight headache is choosing one or the other.. I know the extras are worth some money but still I'm kind of leaning towards option #2 since it's almost brand new, at least thinking of the looks and the shutter count. I don't know the real age of either of the cameras. Which would you guys pick? //Juha Try to find out the real number of actuations (fotoMe or the like - take a laptop to the shop if need be) and take the one with the longer warranty. Warranty is really crucial. Any advantage in purchase price can easily be offset by an expensive repair in Solms. In order of priority I would always go for 1. Warranty 2. # of actuations. Grip is nice to have but not essential. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks for all the insights and thoughts. I'm going to visit the store tomorrow and try to haggle the price a bit more. The store is a very respected photo store chain in Finland which has been up&running for decades. They're also official Leica reseller. I had the store take photos of each of the camera so I know roughly the cosmetics. They don't really matter much, but "better is always better". The shutter count I verified myself. I had them take sample photos with both cameras and send them over. I then went through the exif for "unique image id" and did the hex -> dec conversion etc. So that's how I know the shutter count. Age - as stated earlier I don't know but will definately check the serials tomorrow. If the less used one has anything less than 32xxxx on it, I will go for the slightly more used one. According to finnish trade/commercial laws I will certainly have some sort of warranty on either of the cameras. Propably around 3 months or so and even after that the commercial law in here says a product must last it's expected lifetime or something similar.. so if it breaks for something stupid during the next year or so I will be fine. The extras on the first camera I'm not sure about.. extra battery will be needed at some point but as you guys said it, can't put much on that since the age is not known. Grip is something that I may or may not need/want. Not really convinced about it.. If I were to buy one later, I'd opt for Luigi's half case with grip. Thus I'm more or less just compering the actual cameras head-to-head. So it's price vs. minor scuff marks + shutter count. 100 euros isn't that big of a deal really, so I guess I'll see when I've checked them both onsite. Definately have to negotiate uv/ir filter for my 40mm 1.4 nokton mc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falk61462 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2009 I did not mean any warranty by the dealer. I meant the 2 years worldwide warranty by Leica. If there is any LEICA warranty left for any of the 2 cameras, that would be the one to go for. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 12, 2009 They both seem quite expensive to me. Warranty is key however. Check the firmware version in each as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 12, 2009 you can buy a 2nd hand mint m8.2 body for us$2820 i wouldn't be in a rush to spend your cash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted November 12, 2009 Falk: ok, I get it now Will definately check that with the age as well.. I guess it would be reasonable to expect at least the #2 to be rather new with the mentioned shutter count! Would be a nice suprise to have orig. Leica warranty. As for the price being a little on the steep side, I'm not so sure. The going rate for M8's seems to be around 2000 euros in Ebay. And that's mostly from private sellers without any kind of warranty.. Also need to factor in the part ex compensation for my Nikon. Private sellers are giving up theirs for around 900 euros with similar package. Thus I'm getting 250€ more than selling it privately. Which would make the "cash price" for the M8's around 2000 euro mark, which is the Ebay price... Go figure Ohh and I bought the nikon 2nd hand myself and I'm already getting more for it that I paid about a year back.. And well, I also like to think I'm supporting the local camera store this way. so things to remember tomorrow: #1 verify age #2 serial number #3 check for Leica warranty #4 check firmware version #5 haggle price #6 get uv/ir filter And warranty comes first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 12, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 12, 2009 There is something to be said for buying a 'well used' camera - it generally means that it has been used regularly, and probably well maintained and functioning correctly (maybe it applies more to mechanical M cameras though!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted November 12, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 12, 2009 From what I have heard, the serial number is not a reliable indicator of age, so I wouldn't place too much reliance on that in making your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted November 12, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 12, 2009 A long Leica warranty will ensure your investment has a comforting piece of protection. Don't be shy about wanting a deal; especially if you are looking at a lens/filter purchase at the same time. Test all units on offer before buying. A used battery or grip should not swing your decsision - get the best camera, lens and warranty you can as a priority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted November 13, 2009 Well, the new M8 is @home now - which is nice! I ended up going for the #2 camera with that 161 shutter actuations. The camera #1 had already been reserved by someone else so that option wasn't available anymore. I did however see the camera still and it had more visible damage than what was seen in the pictures… scratchy lcd etc etc Well, my "new" camera is from the early series and comes with 319xxx serial. It still had the old 1.02 firmware in it! I immediately updated that to 2.04 so I can use my sdhc-cards etc. Things were looking smooth so I did some test shots and turns out the camera hasn't had the "purple line fix"!! So it really is old series dating back from sometime before nov 2006. So naturally I'm a little gutted about that.. but I had been warned so I'll just suck it in. Other than that the camera is in a perfect working order and in a brand new looking shape with no scratches anywhere etc etc... Lucky thing is I bought it from that reliable camera store so they're now organizing to ship it over to Solms for Leica fix naturally under warranty at no cost to me. Hopefully they'll go through the camera in other ways as well and make sure everything is nice & working.. Does anybody know what they actually do to remedy that purple line problem @Solms? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 13, 2009 Share #18 Posted November 13, 2009 Purple line has nothing to do with the age of the camera.It is a sensor defect that can happen to any camera, any time, maybe caused by cosmic radiation. If it had 1.02 and this number chances are it will still have the SDS issue, which Leica will fix free of charge. For the purple line it will most likely be a new sensor. Nice thing: Leica will almost certainly give you a year of full guarantee on the camera. Maybe you can even claim two IR filters on it. If the previous owner kept it in its original state (and in the box with this number of exposures) he may have neglected to claim them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted November 13, 2009 Thanks for the heads up Jaapv! Truckfull of kudos coming down that way! Turns out previous owner didn't register it at all. So I just did and ordered my free filters! Now I'm crossing my fingers for that 1 year free Leica warranty… if I get that as well, this deal is really starting to turn into a lottery win. Just dropped off the camera to the dealers to be sent to Solms. Their estiamate was around 3 weeks which I find acceptable. I can live with my Bessa film camera and DL4 until that time, no sweat. After all the camera is pretty much brand new when it comes back with the new sensor and all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted November 13, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 13, 2009 There is something to be said for buying a 'well used' camera - it generally means that it has been used regularly, and probably well maintained and functioning correctly (maybe it applies more to mechanical M cameras though!). Mechanical yes, digital... probably not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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