Help requested: M3 rewind knob marks

[robh]

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Hi,

 

Does anyone have any information regarding dates and/or serial numbers of the changes of markings on the top of the Leica M3 rewind knob (from red slot to one red dot to two red dots)? The changes are mentioned in my books (Laney and van Hasbroeck) but no dates/serial numbers.

 

Thanks,

Rob

[luigi bertolotti]

I do not remember to have ever read about s/ns that mark those minor transitions, so imho they weren't officially recorded, but I stand to be corrected... is the typical subtle tricky question that can fascinate some collectors, and many are here around...

[robh]

Thanks, Luigi. I have a DS M3 #832xxx , made in 1956, with 'early' features (shutter speeds, glass pressure plate, earliest ASA speed range) but with double red dot on rewind knob (said to be 'late' feature) so I was wondering if the latter had been replaced.

 

Rob

[luigi bertolotti]

I read in Sartorius that the slot was used till s/n 785.800, and from 785.801 there are TWO red dots...he doesn't mention the single dot, which surely was used, according to other authors : I suppose before the two were adopted... but cannot find the picture of a "one dot" model... can be it's the scarcest variant.

Edited October 24, 2009 by luigi bertolotti

[jc_braconi]

My 757360 has one dot.

[luigi bertolotti]

quote=jc_braconi;1091033]My 757360 has one dot.

This maybe looks like to have one red dot... but not so clear when too enlarged... and has the frame selector, and s/n maybe has 6 digits...

[ATTACH]169381[/ATTACH]

757360 is into a batch of 9700 M3s ... can be it's the "one dot batch" ?

Edited October 24, 2009 by luigi bertolotti

[UliWer]

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Lager I (p.171) says: "Rewind knob markings changed from a bar to a dot to two dots during the first year of production".

 

There are pictures of No. 700000 with one dot, though No. 700066 from 1954 shows no dot. Preproduction cameras No. 005, 0041, and No. 0043 from 1953 have no dot. 800000 and The "Alfred Eisenstaedt" M3 No. M3 E-1 (preproduction MP ca. 1955) have two dots.

[robh]

Many thanks to all. I have Lager's book on order but not at hand yet.

 

Rob

[jc_braconi]

Quote

=luigi bertolotti;

This maybe looks like to have one red dot... but not so clear when too enlarged... and has the frame selector, and s/n maybe has 6 digits...

 

757360 is into a batch of 9700 M3s ... can be it's the "one dot batch" ?

 

Not this one Luigi, it wears round attaches

the second in this row :

[luigi bertolotti]

757.xxx WITH frame selector ? I thought it arrived later...

[david werbeloff]

Hi All,

 

Just to confuse, #700XXX with frame selector and 1 dot on the rewind knob over here...

 

Best,

David

[jc_braconi]

To day I have seen a 756 9xx with 1 dot and whithout frame selector.

[Robert J]

My M3 #739735 has the slot,double stroke wind and no frameline pre-selector.

[Big Jim]

Hi 

I wondered if the M3 serial number change to two  dots on the rewind button was clarified. I ask because I saw an 783 500 serial number with two dots. 

Edited April 6, 2024 by Big Jim

[willeica]

Look at pages 207/8 in Part 2 of this article for details of the rewind knob changes.  Serial numbers for changes are across the top 

 

Bawendi early M3 part 1.pdf

Bawendi early M3 part 2.pdf

William 

[jerzy]

correction to one dot in the list of Dr Bawendi. In contrary to entry in his table saying that one dot may be found occasionaly up to 70300 I found many as well with much higher serial, the highest i found was 779712. Mechanical construction of wind knob changed with 778200, below this number screws with one dot and slot were interchangeable. Even within the prototype and inital batches of M3 (700xxx) both variants may be found, however slot appears more often

[sandro]

I have an M3 709688 with one red dot.

Lex