danedit28 Posted May 31, 2013 Share #1 Posted May 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) After shooting with the M9 for 2 years, I just received my new M 240 last week and I was noticing that I wasn't getting that super sharp image that I was used to... finally pulled out the long ruler this afternoon and was testing the focus. I shot about 2 dozen shots at various apertures ranging from f/1.4 to f/5.6 on the 50mm Summilux and the 35mm Summicron. The attached image (1:1 crop) is at f/4 on a 50mm Summilux and represents the most common result from this session. The sad part is that I was aiming at the "37" every time. And this confirms what I was noticing when taking pics of my family in that the focus was catching the back parts of their face or even their hair instead of their eyes. UGH. How do they deliver a body with such a drastic calibration error and how long will it take to get fixed? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205736-new-m-240-focus-is-off/?do=findComment&comment=2334926'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Hi danedit28, Take a look here New M 240 focus is off?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
macjonny1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share #2 Posted May 31, 2013 Color is good though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom875 Posted May 31, 2013 Share #3 Posted May 31, 2013 I just sent mine to New York for the same problem. I was told 3-4 weeks possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 31, 2013 Share #4 Posted May 31, 2013 Before sending your new camera for calibration I recommend careful retesting including identical tests with your M9. It is possible that the lenses may be where the error is even if they previously appeared to work properly for you. That is not to say that your new camera may not need adjusting only that it is good to be sure before sending it back. For example my Summilux 50ASPH which was previously serviced and adjusted (for free actually) in Solms in 2009 and seemed to be fine on my M8 and then for last three years on my M9. On critical testing this year I found that it was now out by several inches wide open in close. I cannot account for the shift. It is now readjusted (and that was quite an expensive exercise) The camera remains completely accurate providing I do my part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danedit28 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted May 31, 2013 Geoff, thanks for sharing your story. At your suggestion, I set up another test, this time using my 1.4 eyepiece magnifier, tripod, multiple shots and additional focusing aid sitting right at the 37" mark. Unfortunately with all four of my Leica lenses, I get the same result. The rangefinder is consistently back-focusing approximately 0.8 inches at f/1.4 and the center-point seems to travel back a bit (to about 1.5 inches) when closing down the aperture to f/4. I see this same exact result on all four of my lenses: 21mm SE, 35 cron, 50 lux, 90 summarit. Attached is a 1:1 crop at f/1.4 from the 50mm lux. It would be a good idea to re-test my lenses on the M9 as well, except that it's currently at Leica NJ having its sensor cleaned! But I can tell you that I was nailing focus on nearly every shot with the M9 (with the only exceptions being the occasional camera shake or trying to get my young daughters to stay still). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205736-new-m-240-focus-is-off/?do=findComment&comment=2334972'>More sharing options...
Leicakillen Posted May 31, 2013 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2013 Hi, I completely agree with Geoff - please do the testing again. But I don´t think your "ruler"-setup for focus testing is ideal, it is actually difficult to focus on the number 37. Much better to focus on a line that is absolutely perpendicular with the film plane. I add an image below, I think you understand. When Leica shoot test-images, they do it similar. regards Anders Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205736-new-m-240-focus-is-off/?do=findComment&comment=2334984'>More sharing options...
danedit28 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted May 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Anders, my second test has exactly that: the white paper on the left of the screen has a vertical line parallel to the sensor. The paper is sitting right at the 37" mark. The ruler, in this case, is merely to get an estimate of how far off the rangefinder is firing. Thanks! -dan Hi,I completely agree with Geoff - please do the testing again. But I don´t think your "ruler"-setup for focus testing is ideal, it is actually difficult to focus on the number 37. Much better to focus on a line that is absolutely perpendicular with the film plane. I add an image below, I think you understand. When Leica shoot test-images, they do it similar. regards Anders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted May 31, 2013 Share #8 Posted May 31, 2013 Dan, how frustrating! I only reply with two encouraging thoughts... First, you will really appreciate your M240 once it is calibrated correctly by Leica. Fortunately for me, my M240 arrived in better synchrony with my lenses than my M9 was, so I have found precise OVF focusing superior with the M240 to M9 or MM. Second, if you really like the exact calibration of your M9, perhaps you should phone up Sarah or the supervisor at Leica NJ and ask that they match your M240 to your M9 spec while BOTH bodies are there. I have never seen the adjustment carried out, but I presume that a technician could dial in the same RF translation of a test screen between two bodies. That would provide for similar "windage" for each of your lenses on both bodies. Perhaps Jaap or Michael Hussman could comment on "body matching." Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted May 31, 2013 Share #9 Posted May 31, 2013 no offense to the other posters but I feel a Rant coming On: when I got my M9-P the focus was out.... I posted some images on here- carefully taken on a tripod, with a cable release (on self timer even)- using a 1.4 magnifier, an approved focus chart and taking ones time... I got a heap of messages saying my tests were not ideal- even worthless, to test again, more scientifically, etc. I couldn't help thinking: is it really so hard to test the focus on a Leica camera? and If it is so hard- that you can't even be sure- even with a tripod, magnifier, cable release, etc: then how the hell could you EVER focus the thing critically in the real world? The long and short of it was that the camera was out and it is not so hard to test the focus on a Leica RF if your eyesight is decent and you have half a brain: just like it is not so hard to actually use the thing in the real world and focus it accurately. Sometimes I got the impression from the experts that focusing that RF patch is a kind of elite esoteric science- its intricate detail known only to a few initiates of the 33rd degree ... the odd thing was in different contexts the same folks seemed to imply that it was the easiest, fastest and most accurate focusing system found on Earth. My Bet is Your Camera Is Out direct from the Factory (as is a common documented experience)- not You. Send it in. It seems to me that the RF can get knocked out during transit. Seemingly the only other explanation is that the people calibrating these cameras in Solms are on Acid half the time and I refuse to believe that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario Arioldi Posted May 31, 2013 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2013 With the new M (Typ 240)there is an easy way to check the RF focussing accuracy: Get the best focus with the RF, possibly using a tripod and than check it using the LV, which is absolutely correct by definition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted May 31, 2013 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2013 I bought 75mm Cron a month and a half ago, 35 lux four months ago, and received M last week. This made me wonder so I did the suggested focus test with both lenses. I guess if I miss a shot it will only be my bad. I would surely send those two for calibration. Here are my examples, 75 first, than 35. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205736-new-m-240-focus-is-off/?do=findComment&comment=2335022'>More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 31, 2013 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2013 Danedit I am only speaking of general principles of course and only you can judge for yourself what works for you. If you consider that you can see a consistent error across your lenses then you may like to forward your results with the equipment and what you expect too? I'm sure that you understand the nature of focus shift as you stop down as well? I have not observed this condition in practical use nor in testing with my APO Summicron 75 ASPH nor the Summilux 50 ASPH at one and two metres. It is present to a small degree with the new Summilux 35 ASPH although much less than from the earlier model I can't speak about the other lenses you mentioned. I have never been able to tell anything meaningful in the same setup with lenses shorter than that 35 though. The nominal depth of field alone would make any reliable judgement problematic. I just looked at the nominal DoF tables for the Summilix 50 ASPH at f/1.4 and your Super Elmar 21 at f/3.4. At one metre they are about 1.25 inches and about 18 inches for the 21. You would be most interested in the critical performance of your Summilux of course. An inch and a quarter maximum of acceptable sharpness doesn't leave you much margin for error especially in practical use where technique will inevitably add its own variables compared to an ideal test setup. I test with a Spyder lenscal target which perhaps easier to work with. I only test if I find that I seem to be missing where I should have done better though. I am most interested in what my lenses do at my common working apertures at two to three metres and of course errors at more critical scenarios may not be apparent or important at infinity for example. I found some examples in close with my Summilux 50 ASPH wide open or nearly so Geisha Girl photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Variegated leaves in the rain photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com and also stopped down to around f/4~5.6 Natascha in profile photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Emily 2 photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com Once again good luck to you getting this resolved, I think that you can expect superb results from your still very rare new Leica and the lenses that you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 31, 2013 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2013 With the new M (Typ 240)there is an easy way to check the RF focussing accuracy:Get the best focus with the RF, possibly using a tripod and than check it using the LV, which is absolutely correct by definition. Ario that is a very good point and one that I completely overlooked when posting in this thread. Pretty silly of me really when I am looking forward to this capability as one of the advantages of the new design for me. You can tell I don't have my M typ 240 as yet ;-) Still the user will want his camera to produce the correct results with his lenses and using the normal rangefinder. What it will tell though is whether there is any difference between what the RF and the LiveView show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarav Posted May 31, 2013 Share #14 Posted May 31, 2013 no offense to the other posters but I feel a Rant coming On: My Bet is Your Camera Is Out direct from the Factory (as is a common documented experience)- not You. Send it in. ...same thing when I bought M8, M8.2 and M9. Everytime a journey back to Solms. Sometimes with all my lenses, too. In Decembre 2012, I went in Treviso (Italy) to a Leica-Day-Event presenting the Monochrome, there were three bodies, one focused perfect the other two mis-focsed noticeably... Wonderful equipment when it's working, but is the adjustment of a rangefinder so hard in Solms??? I bought 3 brand new M-Digital cameras with RF not aligned. Next time (if there'll be a new M camera without movies functions), will I have it in the same situation? ...No, I hope. Send it and let's have it calibrated properely. Then, you'll have a perfect german-made camera in your hands. Don't worry! Now I'm very very happy. Sara Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted May 31, 2013 Share #15 Posted May 31, 2013 I put a black line on an aluminum yardstick with a Sharpie. I would concur previous combination may have offsetting errors. However with multiple lenses and cameras that were purchased new, this is unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 31, 2013 Share #16 Posted May 31, 2013 With the new M (Typ 240)there is an easy way to check the RF focussing accuracy:Get the best focus with the RF, possibly using a tripod and than check it using the LV, which is absolutely correct by definition. Yes, but does that tell you anything informative about whether it is the lens or RF that is out of calibration? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theno23 Posted May 31, 2013 Share #17 Posted May 31, 2013 Focus shift with aperture is a really good point - I don't know if the lenses are normally calibrated to be spot on wide open, or closed down a bit? Should be easy to check with live view though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Ulrich Rohde Posted May 31, 2013 Share #18 Posted May 31, 2013 For my M 240 I have not seen a difference in focusing. But I find my self using the opto-electronic finder (LV condition) and they both agree very well. The LV is very nice as you can really select the point of focus with great precession. The M 9 was not that great and the Noctilux is a great vehicle to test this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted May 31, 2013 Share #19 Posted May 31, 2013 When I got my Monochrom last September, the rangefinder arrived misaligned. It was a big frustration to have to immediately send it back. Yes, things get bumped in shipping. But there's no real excuse for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 31, 2013 Share #20 Posted May 31, 2013 Yes, but does that tell you anything informative about whether it is the lens or RF that is out of calibration? No, but that's why Leica routinely asks customers (at least NJ does) to send in the camera and lens(es) to be sure. Some folks mistakenly think that the camera and lens is therefore calibrated together. In fact, they're calibrated separately to independent standards, but this way Leica ensures both potential issues are addressed. I'm frankly amazed it took 10 posts before Ario stated the obvious advantage that the M provides in this regard with LV. It doesn't specify the cause, but it absolutely identifies a mis-calibration, that either requires more testing or, better yet, sending camera and len(es) for service. It's one of the key benefits of LV in my opinion. When I first got my M8.2, I sent in the camera and 4 lenses. Everything came back with an explanation of which parts required calibration, and no problems since. This is a pain, but I think it's the simplest way to cover all bases and stop the worrying. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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