The Nastiest Filter Reflection I've Ever Seen

[Guest Walt]

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There are downsides to these IR filters, and it is not always possible to know when they must be removed or to accomplish that in the context of the kind of photography I, and many others, do. This was one that made me burst out laughing and then took half an hour to clean up convincingly. To the left of the subject's head you can see a pair of automobile lights pointed into the lens, undoubtedly the source of the vampire teeth. With all the light sources in the image, it's interesting that these are the only ones that seemed to produce a problem. The first is the raw shot at ACR 4.1 defaults (more or less), the second the nearly finished file for printing. This is an ISO 1250 image, WB set to tungsten, the 28 Summicron at 2.0. It's a fundamentally very good camera; too bad about all the foibles. For those interested, this is the German-born, American poet Rosmarie Waldrop.

 

Walt

 

 

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[BerndReini]

It's disgusting and drives me nuts. I shoot a lot of night photography myself and it is difficult enough to avoid flare without the filters. On top of that it is the kind of lighting that brings out the worst in the M8s IR sensitivity. So what to do? The IR filters are a good workaround in most cases, but this has to be fixed by the next generation of cameras. It is a shame. Why manufacture lenses to this standard if the stupid filter in front of the lens ruins everything?

 

And yes, I know, there is no space for an IR filter and it makes the image less sharp. But come on already, there have to be ways to incorporate an IR filter either in the camera or in the lens that can do the job. This has to be the number one concern for the future of the M8, even before full frame capabilities.

[doctorb]

It is too bad, but has not happened to often to me. Again, I dont shoot as much at night. Should Leica have introduced a new digital lens line with the introduction of the M8 with the IR coating/glass incorporated into the lens elements. Expensive solution, yes, but it is Leica, right? No cost to performance compromise?

[Eoin]

It possibly also didn't help the fact that there was also a pane of wet window glass between you and those light sources, still I like the image and think you did an excellent job in post

[Guest Walt]

I should say that I've actually had only very occassional problems with defined reflections generated by the filters, though they probably aggravate flare. This shot did make me wonder what ever happened to the idea of curved filters. My memory is that they eliminated a lot of this kind of stuff, though I haven't heard of them for years.

 

Walt

[jaapv]

Let's be grateful that a clone tool is easier to use than, retouche pencil, paint and scalpel..... I like the end result. And yes, this kind of flare is a pita, but lets be fair, an unfiltered lens can produce some quite unpleasant nasties in these circumstances as well.

[Mauribix]

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Hi Walt,

i'm quite sure about this nasty effect's cause:

The problem shouldn't be the car's light, but the blue neon lights.I've had the same problem just last night again.

This problem shows up especially when WB is set to tungsten.

Removing the filter lead just to a conclusion: you should have had a red circle (or purple) around the blue reflections too.

Dunno if it's a purple fringing problem (in this case due to sensor and not to the filter/lens) or a UV/IR filter issue, but i certainly know that summicron 28 is the lens in which i found this problem more frequently.

The test i made (with a little help from my friend "the dealer")was to use the same lens with se same uv/ir filter on, with a M7+film.

results:

No blue circle at all, and no reflections too; and consider the fact that Leica told us to use not the filter when shooting film!

That test wasn't obviously artistic (not great colors with filter on film), but gave me a certainty in this world of uncertainties.

 

hope this help

 

cheers

[wattsy]

The UV filters irritate me frequently - especially the Leica branded ones. I take many shots towards the sun (often in or just outside the frame) and, if I forget to remove the UV filter, I will usually get an arc of rainbow coloured flare in the shot.

[guywalder]

 

The test i made (with a little help from my friend "the dealer")was to use the same lens with se same uv/ir filter on, with a M7+film.

results:

No blue circle at all, and no reflections too; and consider the fact that Leica told us to use not the filter when shooting film!

 

cheers

 

interesting, did you use a tripod and the same subject? I only ask as the reflection problem is very hit and miss in my experience, here are a couple that made me laugh (not exactly top drawer photographic material admittedly). Both with the 28 summicron:

firstly in daylight, several other similar frames had no such reflection,

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then at night (tuktuk's dont usually have foglights....),

[Daniel Ortego]

Dang, all this negative talk about my new “unused” 28-cron’ has me a bit remorseful. I sorta/kinda wish now, that I opted for the 28-Elmarit. Actually, when I received it I was a bit dismayed my it's size and weight, but it does feel pretty solid. Oh well, life is short so what the hell.

Regards,

[Guest Walt]

Hi Walt,

i'm quite sure about this nasty effect's cause:

The problem shouldn't be the car's light, but the blue neon lights.I've had the same problem just last night again.

This problem shows up especially when WB is set to tungsten.

Removing the filter lead just to a conclusion: you should have had a red circle (or purple) around the blue reflections too.

Dunno if it's a purple fringing problem (in this case due to sensor and not to the filter/lens) or a UV/IR filter issue, but i certainly know that summicron 28 is the lens in which i found this problem more frequently.

The test i made (with a little help from my friend "the dealer")was to use the same lens with se same uv/ir filter on, with a M7+film.

results:

No blue circle at all, and no reflections too; and consider the fact that Leica told us to use not the filter when shooting film!

That test wasn't obviously artistic (not great colors with filter on film), but gave me a certainty in this world of uncertainties.

 

hope this help

 

cheers

Maurizio-

 

There are four shots in this series and this is the only one one with the car headlamps and the extra teeth. The others also contain the blue neon lights, though all four shots are at slightly different angles. This is very quirky stuff.

 

Normally this kind of thing is not much of a problem and I posted this mostly for its amusement value. Here, because of the sensitive location, they were more difficult to remove gracefully without distorting the line of the lips and thus the facial expression. And I needed to leave some highlight in precisely these areas for it to be convincing.

 

Daniel, on the 28 Summicron itself, I think it is a wonderful lens, one of the most beautiful, grayscale wise, that I have used and of thankfully modest contrast as Leica lenses go these days. I don't know about its use for color, which I only look at for its implications about the BW conversion.

 

Walt

[lct]

Dang, all this negative talk about my new “unused” 28-cron’ has me a bit remorseful. I sorta/kinda wish now, that I opted for the 28-Elmarit...

This has nothing to do with your lens. The culprit, as always, is thefilter. Always remove it when you shoot at night otherwise you'll get flare and ghost images with any lens whatsoever.

BTW i own both the 28/2 and the 28/2.8 asph and to me the former is one of the very best Leica lenses ever made IMHO.

[Daniel Ortego]

This has nothing to do with your lens. The culprit, as always, is thefilter. Always remove it when you shoot at night otherwise you'll get flare and ghost images with any lens whatsoever.

BTW i own both the 28/2 and the 28/2.8 asph and to me the former is one of the very best Leica lenses ever made IMHO.

 

Thanks, I needed that! As my first Leica lens, I really had my fingers crossed and rolled the old dice. If I ever get over this sticker shock of the cron' and the new M8, I'll be flyin' high! Yes, I did have to take out a loan to help pay for this little package and I'm not even a pro or anything close to it! Just a guy with more time than money on his hands in search of a hobby.

Regards,

[guywalder]

This has nothing to do with your lens. The culprit, as always, is thefilter. Always remove it when you shoot at night otherwise you'll get flare and ghost images with any lens whatsoever.

BTW i own both the 28/2 and the 28/2.8 asph and to me the former is one of the very best Leica lenses ever made IMHO.

 

I use the 28/2 for about 90% of the time on my M8, but I never take the filter off, and mostly get away with it:

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[lct]

It's up to you of course but don't complain when you get pictures like Walt's or mine here.

 

[LichMD]

I experienced this as well at a friend's wedding a few weeks ago.

I was taking environmental portraits and group shots with the 35/2.0 V4, about 5 of a total of 180 photographs had these green or blue colored artifacts. I was able to clean this up in PP, but quite irritating.

[Olsen]

Ha, ha, ha! Try with some garlic. Or make cross of two tripod legs. And she will go away!

[Eoin]

Dang, all this negative talk about my new “unused” 28-cron’ has me a bit remorseful. I sorta/kinda wish now, that I opted for the 28-Elmarit. Actually, when I received it I was a bit dismayed my it's size and weight, but it does feel pretty solid. Oh well, life is short so what the hell.

Regards,

 

Daniel, relax, you have chosen about the best general shooting lens for the M8, you'll discover the summicron has less of the Asph fingerprint than other asph lenses such as the more contrasty 28 elmarit. You'll come to value the extra stop and the better bokeh of the Summicron and the better shadow detail. As for price and value for money......it's up to you to make the package pay it's way with memories and images of people, places and things you hold dear. Enjoy

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[robsteve]

With all the light sources in the image, it's interesting that these are the only ones that seemed to produce a problem.

 

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Walt:

 

I used my Noctilux at a party over the weekend and had a few of the odd reflections too. They are not just limited to Leicas, but can be found in images from other digital cameras. It usually requires a really bright light in relation to the rest of the scene. It is the shiny CCD sensor causing the problem. The bright light reflects off the sensor and beams back out the lens and will crate a mirror image anywhere the conditions are right to reflect it back to record in the picture.

 

Most of the time it is the filter causing it, but I have had it happen on Canon digitals and large telephotos like the 300mm and 400mm f2.8 lenses. On these lenses the front element is just a flat glass like a filter and can cause these reflections.

 

I don't think these type of reflections happened with film.

 

Here is one of my shots form the weekend that had the problem. The candle was the bright source that caused it.

 

[johnastovall]

It's not just a Leica/filter problem. I often see strange flares when shooting a Canon 50/1.0 at night on a 5D with no filters. To me it's just one of the challanges one has to deal with when doing ultra low light shooting.