Leonil Posted February 17, 2014 Share #1 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) So I recently dropped my billingham bag about 30cm from the ground (1 foot) and I heard a pretty hefty thump. The viewfinder side of the camera rests on the bottom and I was sure the padding was enough even though it seemed thin because of the constant pressure... To get to my point, maybe its my paranoia, I only noticed that when focusing, diagonal lines don't line up perfectly. For example, I took an image of a table leg, its all lined up and the focus is bang on because the leg is a vertical line. But when I recompose and try to align the edge of the table top, the two images do not overlap. Is it because of the bump I gave the rangefinder mechanism, or something to do with diagonal lines that start close and move further away like the edge of a table Using my camera for 3 weeks now and its all so damn new to me. I feel like I'm re-learning film again. Did I mess up the alignment tolerance of the rangefinder? Or have I just noticed something to do with the triangulation of the m? Thanks, Leo Edited February 17, 2014 by Leonil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Hi Leonil, Take a look here Did I misalign my rangefinder patch?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Londonmember Posted February 17, 2014 Share #2 Posted February 17, 2014 you have put out your RF vertical alignment. The fall is enough to do it. It will have to go back to Leica to be re-set. Sorry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 17, 2014 Share #3 Posted February 17, 2014 Not so sure. What you see in the viewfinder is two views, separated by the rangefinder base length, of the same object superimposed on each other and parallax, especially close up, can make the two images different enough for what you see in the rangefinder patch to be confusing. On the other hand, my Tri-Elmar (MATE) was destroyed by a similar fall in a similarly padded bag and needed to be rebuilt. You need to run some tests with the camera tripod mounted looking at a plane parallel to the sensor imaging plane with vertically running edges, such as railings, and then try to focus at different focussing distances to see how well it is working. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for the replies - but I think my camera patch is really out - and its only noticeable on lines that draw away from the camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! WIth this shot, I drew up what I saw through the patch, and I was focused about 1.5 meters away, at an angle of about 30-45 degrees looking down at the table. With this shot, at 2 meters, it was slightly better but the brick line was still a little off. With anything past that, the vertical lines were perfect, and nothing was wrong. I never noticed this before until my bag slipped off my shoulder and I was shooting some portraits at 2 meters distance and noticed something odd and did some tests. I also started shooting things I shot when I first got the camera, for test shots, and the vertical lines on my pc screens are not dead on when I knew they were when I first got the camera 3 weeks ago. What do you guys think? Is it just parallax? Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! WIth this shot, I drew up what I saw through the patch, and I was focused about 1.5 meters away, at an angle of about 30-45 degrees looking down at the table. With this shot, at 2 meters, it was slightly better but the brick line was still a little off. With anything past that, the vertical lines were perfect, and nothing was wrong. I never noticed this before until my bag slipped off my shoulder and I was shooting some portraits at 2 meters distance and noticed something odd and did some tests. I also started shooting things I shot when I first got the camera, for test shots, and the vertical lines on my pc screens are not dead on when I knew they were when I first got the camera 3 weeks ago. What do you guys think? Is it just parallax? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/222197-did-i-misalign-my-rangefinder-patch/?do=findComment&comment=2533926'>More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 17, 2014 Share #5 Posted February 17, 2014 You certainly get a parallax effect when looking at an edge which starts close to the camera and recedes as in your table image. As I explained, you need to find a more uniform surface to test with, such as the brick wall in your second image. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted February 17, 2014 You certainly get a parallax effect when looking at an edge which starts close to the camera and recedes as in your table image. As I explained, you need to find a more uniform surface to test with, such as the brick wall in your second image. Basically after a few tests, any kind of "perspective" line (a line that starts close and moves away from the camera) NEVER aligns straight until I get close to 10 meters to infinity. Its a very noticeable slant to the patch image. I tested this on a road kerb and after I hot 10 meters on my focus ring, the lines finally coalesced. At 2-5 meters the lines would look similar to my brick wall example, at 2 and less it was just impossible to use the rangefinder to focus BUT, only applies to perspective lines. I really hope that's normal. Everything else seems fine. vertical, horizontal lines, and paters are perfectly fine. Please let me know if Im just being silly and that I didn't notice this until now and that a small bump wasn't enough to knock my alignment... I think Im being too paranoid and being totally anal. Leo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2014 Share #7 Posted February 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) That is normal. The viewfinder has, by nature, parallax (which gets less as distance increases, obviously. It is very hard to knock the M rangefinder out of vertical adjustment as the mechanism is different, It has a set screw now instead of a friction fork 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted February 17, 2014 That is normal. The viewfinder has, by nature, parallax (which gets less as distance increases, obviously.It is very hard to knock the M rangefinder out of vertical adjustment as the mechanism is different, It has a set screw now instead of a friction fork jaapv, just because its you - I will stop worrying and I'll just send my M out for a spring clean to solms later in the year when I don't need my camera. For now, I'll put it down to paranoia and just being really new to Rangefinder systems. I honestly don't know how I didn't notice this before, since I spent most of my time shooting products at f/2 at 1 meter distance. I guess I never really shot perspective lines before. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenicolas Posted February 17, 2014 Share #9 Posted February 17, 2014 I can never align lines that draw away from the camera. The rf is precise enough that the distance between the bottom and the top of the patch register differently. To test vertical mis-alignment I would try to focus on a dot, like a nail on a white wall or something similar... Envoyé de mon HTC One X en utilisant Tapatalk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted February 17, 2014 Share #10 Posted February 17, 2014 Does a vertical alignment depends upon the focusing distance? Or, one could say, it seems to be fine at 2m, it's fine in general? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 17, 2014 Share #11 Posted February 17, 2014 As Jaap has already pointed out the M240's (and other Leica rangefinder cameras) have quite noticeable parallax at close range. If the OP have the chance to look at another Leica he will see that it is the same in all of them. You will definitely notice parallax at close distances (1-5 meters) but the effect is mitigated as distance increases. Vertical alignment has nothing to do with parallax, and is the adjustment of the offset between the top and bottom split image in the rangefinder patch. When out of alignment these split images can have a gap, or overlap. I do not believe viewing distance has any effect on this adjustment. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted February 17, 2014 Share #12 Posted February 17, 2014 This sounds like my experience last week. While transporting a lot of stuff via cart from our car to our condo, my Billingham fell off the back of the cart probably close to two feet. My first thought was to test the focus of my M on several subjects and no problem. The padding took the thump well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted February 18, 2014 Share #13 Posted February 18, 2014 What I'm reading is normal unless there are other symptoms. As Jaap and Mark have discussed there is a parallax and only one point on a line extending away from you that will be in alignment. I recently knocked my rangefinder out of vertical alignment and the symptom was that when focusing on say, a right angle in a flat plane relative to the camera (e.g. a corner of a door frame), the vertical lines would line up correctly. But the horizontal lines would not line up. Focusing based on the vertical lines was spot on and the camera focused perfectly. However, psychologically I couldn't handle it and I sent it to NJ where they rapidly adjusted it for free. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 18, 2014 Share #14 Posted February 18, 2014 Yes, I agree, you can live without correct, spot-on vertical alignment but the rangefinder is so much easier to use when it is. You get more "snap" - if that is the right word. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted February 18, 2014 Hey guys, thanks for the replies and info. When my camera fell, a photog friend said that his M9 could be easily knocked out of alignment if he put it down on the table too quickly - and said that my focus was off. On the M9, the parallax as you guys say isn't as noticeable as on the M. The focus is still bang on, where the perspective lines cross with the ones in the patch (as in they don't line up but where they cross is the focus point) and I put a coin there, and yes, the image is sharp as a tack. I guess its something I only just noticed and only after the fall. The camera in all other respects, works as it should. Did I ever mention I love my M? I literally take it with me everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 18, 2014 Share #16 Posted February 18, 2014 ...a photog friend said that his M9 could be easily knocked out of alignment if he put it down on the table too quickly - and said that my focus was off. 1. Leica cameras are not that easy to knock out of rangefinder alignment. I realize it's an expensive bit of kit, and you want to protect it, but there are plenty of photojournalists who work their Leica cameras…in helicopters, jeeps, horseback, on safari, in riots…and there is no need to baby your camera. Plenty of Leica M9s and M240s get bumped and/or "firmly set" on desks and tables every day, without the need to recalibrate. 2. It appears your friend was wrong about your camera's focus being off. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik_nik9 Posted February 18, 2014 Share #17 Posted February 18, 2014 I had the same fears once when I realised the different lines. But I soon learned - as you do now - that it's a given thing with the rangefinder mechanism and I realised that due to the different lines it's even easier to focus. You mentioned it, the spot where the lines cross is exactly where the focus point is. So you rangefinder mechanism seems to be 100% perfect - not everybody is that lucky . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 19, 2014 Share #18 Posted February 19, 2014 1. Leica cameras are not that easy to knock out of rangefinder alignment. I realize it's an expensive bit of kit, and you want to protect it, but there are plenty of photojournalists who work their Leica cameras…in helicopters, jeeps, horseback, on safari, in riots…and there is no need to baby your camera. Plenty of Leica M9s and M240s get bumped and/or "firmly set" on desks and tables every day, without the need to recalibrate. 2. It appears your friend was wrong about your camera's focus being off. It may be that somebody has been fiddling with his camera. On the M9 the locking glue is part of the fixation of the fork. If on adjustment one does not soften it but breaks it the camera will come out of adjustment easily afterwards. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sfeir Posted February 19, 2014 Share #19 Posted February 19, 2014 In case it is the vertical alignment that is at fault, do note that the M (240) is much easier to adjust than the M7/8/9, and does not need a special tool, but a hex 2.5 wrench. You first have to remove the red logo by heating it and twisting with the aid of matches or thick toothpick. One removed you will see the hex screw that holds the cam for vertical adjustment. After softening the black glue using a tiny amount of acetone on a q tip, turning the screw using the hex wrench moves the copper part that holds the focusing mirror vertically and the focusing patch is moved up or down. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/222197-did-i-misalign-my-rangefinder-patch/?do=findComment&comment=2535397'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted February 20, 2014 Share #20 Posted February 20, 2014 Sorry for dumb question, but could someone describe me or if possible show in an example what this misalignment looks like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now