Stealth3kpl Posted October 2, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've noticed that, using the 35/1.4 FLE, lines in the out of focus area can appear quite broad (for example, to the right of the subject in the image, the horizon has a broad line - almost a tramline). Is this a trait confined to asph lenses or due to the asph lens elements? Would there be a smoother background blur in a non-asph lens? Pete Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/213921-is-this-an-asph-trait/?do=findComment&comment=2432833'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2013 Posted October 2, 2013 Hi Stealth3kpl, Take a look here Is this an Asph trait?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Marc G. Posted October 2, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 2, 2013 it is entirely up to the whole optical cell how bokeh is rendered. the 50 summilux asph obviously contains an aspheric surface too but has the smoothest bokeh ive ever seen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted October 2, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 2, 2013 Looks like when you apply too much PP in RAW conversion, try setting everything to around 0, and work one step at the time to determin when it happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted October 2, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 2, 2013 Could it be that you applied too much "Defringing" in post-processing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 2, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 2, 2013 ASPH lenses do create doubling in OOF areas, yes, and I notice it more towards the fringe of the image. I would say the example is typical of an ASPH lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted October 2, 2013 Could it be that you applied too much "Defringing" in post-processing? No Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marc G. Posted October 2, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ASPH lenses do create doubling in OOF areas, yes, and I notice it more towards the fringe of the image. I would say the example is typical of an ASPH lens. I don't think this is a plain truth. Puts stated in one of his writings that bokeh is depending on the grade of optical correction (I think it was spherical aberration), meaning that the better corrected the lens the more nervous the OOF, but yet somehow Leica's highly corrected lenses like the (APO) ASPH versions of the 50, 75 90, 135 manage to produce a very smooth creamy out of focus rendering, very different from the 35 FLE. Especially when one considers the doubling in OOF areas, there are examples from the different noctiluxes around and the ASPH version has a much smoother, less swirly bokeh than the f/1 version. The same applies for the 50 summilux pre asph and asph. The 35 asph FLE is certainly a capable lens but the bokeh is quite nervous when comparing it to other ASPH lenses leica produces (28/2, 50/1.4, 75/2, 90/2, 135/3.4) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted October 2, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2013 The 35 asph FLE is certainly a capable lens but the bokeh is quite nervous when comparing it to other ASPH lenses leica produces (28/2, 50/1.4, 75/2, 90/2, 135/3.4) I fully agree! The photo nicely demonstrates why I am not fully happy with the 35 asph FLE; the out of focus rendering can be quite abrupt/busy/nervous. You hardly see this on the ASPHs 50/1.4 or 90/2, and certainly not on the 50 APO ASPH. For the latter, the out of focus is extraordinarily smooth, both in front and back of the region in focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted October 2, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2013 Pete, I've never seen this on either my 35 FLE or 50 Asph. Did you do anything in post? It almost looks like a sharpening or clarity artefact - with USM you can get this if you put a low Amount and very high Radius. Just guessing here of course. cheers Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 2, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 2, 2013 Some Leica Asph lenses indeed have a slightly harsh bokeh, with a tendency towards double lines—others don't. Non-Asph lenses also can have double-line bokehs, so this clearly is not specific to aspherical lenses. That said, the artifact in the picture shown above looks like a consequence of poor (overcooked) post-processing to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted October 2, 2013 Pete, I've never seen this on either my 35 FLE or 50 Asph. Did you do anything in post? It almost looks like a sharpening or clarity artefact - with USM you can get this if you put a low Amount and very high Radius. Just guessing here of course. cheers Philip I haven't sharpened anything. I don't see a need to sharpen M9 and leica glass files. I first noticed this effect in other contributor's pictures. I've been looking for it in mine but haven't noticed anything particularly. Then this image! I'm starting to wonder if it's very noticeable in this image because, at the edge, in the colour file, perhaps there is a pronounced blue edge, and this has been exaggerated by reducing the luminosity of the blue channel in the B+w conversion. I'll post the original when I'm home. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 2, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 2, 2013 I haven't sharpened anything. I don't see a need to sharpen M9 and leica glass files.I first noticed this effect in other contributor's pictures. I've been looking for it in mine but haven't noticed anything particularly. Then this image! I'm starting to wonder if it's very noticeable in this image because, at the edge, in the colour file, perhaps there is a pronounced blue edge, and this has been exaggerated by reducing the luminosity of the blue channel in the B+w conversion. I'll post the original when I'm home. Pete In my experience it is not colour channel related. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erudolph Posted October 2, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 2, 2013 I have seen such line broadening after applying Highlight and Shadow recovery in LightRoom. Do you see the same artifact on shots taken with non-ASPH lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 2, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 2, 2013 This is a known and oft discussed trait of the 35 FLE and it appears without any post processing. I will happily stand corrected, I can only go on what I have read elsewhere about ASPH lenses when I researched the same issue myself. I had read that it was a result of a certain kind of shape found in an ASPH element and I suspect the diminutive size of the Leica lens contributes. It is also supposedly a result of over correction of spherical aberration. Perhaps it a combination of several design aspects in trying to maintain some kind of balance in the lens, it's always going to be a compromise for a lens this small and able. It gets commonly described as Nisen Bokeh, which in the Grand scheme of things means not much. My 35 FLE exhibits the exact same issue FWIW. It appears when shot wide open and even without any post processing. I actually like the effect in some circumstances but know it's not always appropriate. I will stop my lens down to avoid it if necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted October 2, 2013 I have seen such line broadening after applying Highlight and Shadow recovery in LightRoom. Do you see the same artifact on shots taken with non-ASPH lenses? I've only noticed it on this one occasion. No Processing with highlight recovery: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! No processing no highlight recovery: Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! No processing no highlight recovery: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/213921-is-this-an-asph-trait/?do=findComment&comment=2433044'>More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted October 2, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 2, 2013 Looks like when you apply too much PP in RAW conversion, try setting everything to around 0, and work one step at the time to determine when it happens. Definitely Post Processing 'overcooked' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted October 2, 2013 Definitely Post Processing 'overcooked' I'm open to ideas. What do you think has been overcooked bearing in mind there has only been highlight recovery in the previous post's images? How do you reduce this effect in highlight recovery? Are you suggesting another raw converter's highlight recovery would not produce this effect? This was converted in LR4. Why haven't my other lenses produced this effect? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 2, 2013 Share #18 Posted October 2, 2013 No processing with highlight recovery: [...] Huh!? How can you say it's processed and not processed in the same sentence? You are contradicting yourself! I suppose there's no way around it. Can you provide the original file? I'm almost sure it's possible to find a way around it. But there isn't any post-processing to have overcooked! Well—obviously there is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted October 2, 2013 Share #19 Posted October 2, 2013 I'm open to ideas. What do you think has been overcooked bearing in mind there has only been highlight recovery in the previous post's images?How do you reduce this effect in highlight recovery? Are you suggesting another raw converter's highlight recovery would not produce this effect? This was converted in LR4. Why haven't my other lenses produced this effect? Pete It's not the lens fault. I mostly use CS6 for converting RAW... Actually this thread belongs in Post Processing I would suggest to set everything in the RAW converter to 0 Then take one setting at the time and push them to - 100% then + 100% see what happens... basic way to learn about RAW conversion. You can take almost any image like this with bright skies and dark foreground and produce these artifacts, some RAW converters are better than others at controlling this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 2, 2013 Share #20 Posted October 2, 2013 It IS the lens. You can see it on the camera screen when shooting. It has nothing to do with post processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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