philipus Posted July 14, 2011 Share #1  Posted July 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everybody  I hope it is permitted to ask this question in the Collectors/Historica forum.  I have found an old Leica, see the below pictures, which is being sold.  Can you help me identify the model and possibly what it may be worth (provided it isn't a fake - how can one tell that)?  Thank you very much for any insight. Philip Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/156831-help-identifying-an-old-leica-is-it-a-iiif/?do=findComment&comment=1733697'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Hi philipus, Take a look here Help identifying an old Leica, is it a IIIf?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted July 14, 2011 Share #2  Posted July 14, 2011 It's a fake (Russian). Value, roughly £50 (GBP). Loving the wood veneer though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 14, 2011 Share #3 Â Posted July 14, 2011 I'm sorry to say that this is not a Leica. It is a glaring Russian fake, based on an old Fed camera that has been dolled up with ostentative 'Nazi' engraving and a strange covering, none of which any genuine Leica has ever worn. Â But there ARE people who collect those objects. At least, they are conversation (or maybe laughing) pieces. If you are interested, there are several basic handbooks that have info on the various Leica models and variants. If you are really attracted and start to collect in a small way, you can always take out that camera for a look, and a chuckle. Â The old man from the Age of the IIIa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 14, 2011 Share #4 Â Posted July 14, 2011 Welcome to the forum !!! Â ... but this is the Leica forum... ... the camera you depicted is not a Leica: a copy, probably of russian origin... but it is so "exaggerated" that is even nice... better a squarely evident "copy" than a fake which pretends to be original... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share #5  Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks so much for the lightning-fast replies. I'm only recently starting to learn about Leica cameras and was really curious when I saw this one (on Swedish site blocket.se) for about 500€. I can understand that some collectors are interested in the fake models too, but I'm not one of them.  All the best Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted July 14, 2011 Share #6  Posted July 14, 2011 there is one here without the wood veneer for approx £30  LEICA LUFTWAFFE LUFTWAFFEN EIGENTUM aparat foto (728827380) - Publiczne Archiwum Allegro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 14, 2011 Share #7 Â Posted July 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you're interested in older Leicas I would suggest that you buy a book, and look at the numerous posts by our member here J C Braconi (in this section of the forum). Â Once you become familiar with the design features of genuine Leicas you will spot the fakes a mile off. Â The camera you show is off the scale in terms of being 'obviously not a Leica', but some people are fooled when they see such an item and know no better. Â A safer route for newcomers is to buy from a Leica dealer rather than the auction sites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share #8  Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks James. I have been reading everything I can get hold of online, in particular regarding the M3 which I am interested in getting. Is there a particular book regarding that model that you would recommend?  Regarding the fake camera, I was more curious than anything else. I had read that there were models engraved with Luftwaffe Eigentum which are a bit rare. The wood veneer made me doubt that it was a real Leica, though  I will be buying my first from a dealer because I want to be certain it has been serviced properly and I want to be able to try it before buying it.  Thanks again. Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 14, 2011 Share #9  Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks so much for the lightning-fast replies. I'm only recently starting to learn about Leica cameras and was really curious when I saw this one (on Swedish site blocket.se) for about 500€. I can understand that some collectors are interested in the fake models too, but I'm not one of them. All the best Philip  That's an UNFAIR cost : I don't know that site, but such an asking price would make me think they are not serious dealers.  And, yes, Leica with "Luftwaffen Eigentum" engraving are well known (and even not SO rare... during WWII Leitz delivered lot of cameras to the Armed Forces)... you can find easily pictures of original items of this kind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 14, 2011 Share #10 Â Posted July 14, 2011 There are plenty of books on the M series, I haven't read any of them myself however. Â There have never been any fake M cameras or M mount lenses, so you have less worry if you're looking for an M3, but again I would endorse buying from a dealer, to avoid the risk of buying an example which may need extensive work to bring it up to good working order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 14, 2011 Share #11 Â Posted July 14, 2011 There was a Chinese 'copy' I think, and wasn't there a Russian 'M'? Not really fakes though, just copies rather like the Fed and early Canons etc. were of the screw Leicas. Â Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 14, 2011 Share #12 Â Posted July 14, 2011 There's never been a Russian made M camera AFAIK, happy to be proven wrong! Neither has there been any fake M (by that I mean a camera purposely designed to pass off as a Leica M). The nearest thing is a Voigtlander Bessa! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 14, 2011 Share #13  Posted July 14, 2011 Here is the chinese one, Red Flag 20, and lenses.  Google Image Result for http://www.collection-appareils.fr/shangai/images/shanghai_redflag20.jpg  Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 14, 2011 Share #14  Posted July 14, 2011 There was a Chinese 'copy' I think, and wasn't there a Russian 'M'? Not really fakes though, just copies rather like the Fed and early Canons etc. were of the screw Leicas. Gerry  Yes, there has been the fine Red Flag 20... a Chinese M4 with also a "Chinese Summilux 50", not a fake but a nice camera, rare and valued a lot, too. No Russian M, afaik, even if there has been a FED 5 vaguely inspired to Leica M5, but with the standard 39x1 thread mount Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 14, 2011 Share #15  Posted July 14, 2011 Here is the chinese one, Red Flag 20, and lenses. Google Image Result for http://www.collection-appareils.fr/shangai/images/shanghai_redflag20.jpg  Gerry  Exactly... (I wrote while you wrote...) and thanks for the pic ! I never saw the chinese Summicron 90... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted July 14, 2011 Share #16 Â Posted July 14, 2011 Exactly... (I wrote while you wrote...) and thanks for the pic ! I never saw the chinese Summicron 90... Â Don't you remember my Fontenelle archives 69, April 29 this year, giving four pictures of the Chinese Summicron 90 copy (as well as the Summilux 35 copy) ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 14, 2011 Share #17 Â Posted July 14, 2011 Don't you remember my Fontenelle archives 69, April 29 this year, giving four pictures of the Chinese Summicron 90 copy (as well as the Summilux 35 copy) ? Â Heep... I forgot... There were such beautiful originals in the collection, that I paid no much care to the copies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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