Mr. Kaufmann on S2 price, production start, R-compability

[redfalo]

After Mr. Kaufmanns presentation on the Leica VIP event in Cologne yesterday evening I had the opportunity to talk to him very briefly about the S2. this is what he told me about...

- the price: The body will cost something between 10000 and 20000 Euro, Kaufmann said. "We try to make it cost less than 15000 Euro", he told me. "This is not a bargain", he said. the lenses shall be relativly "cheaper" because Leica shares a lot of parts between the different lenses

- the production of the S2 is supposed to start in April 2009 (!). (Some things obviously never change at Leica...)

- R-compability: R lenses won´t fit directly to the S2, but Kaufmann told me: "There will be an adapter". [On the other hand, in his speech he clearly said there will be a digital R10 as well!]

Yours
Olaf

2881792600_a80d010ea5.jpg
Mr. Kaufmann showing the processor of the S2


2880956475_a1fbc2d7aa.jpg
Mr. Kaufmann talkting to Wim Wenders about the S2.

More shots taken at the press event here: Leica stuff - a set on Flickr

[andreas_thomsen]

dear mr. kaufmann you really need to improve the quality of your marketing and PR department. when i saw this morning the tv press coverage (CNN/NTV) from the photokina i heard the best camera in the world is an hassi. (maybe true) but not a word about leica at all. what a shame!!!!!!!!

[jackal]

15000 Euro !


where do I sign ?

[Leicamateur]

quote: R lenses won´t fit directly to the S2, but Kaufmann told me: "There will be an adapter".

Seriously, who would want to use R lenses on S2? Since the sensor is 5x% larger than FF there would be lots and lots of vignetting... useless.

[overgaardcom]

Dear redfalo,

Thanks for the coverage.

Leicamateur,
I wish you would read about the S2 and for example the press release from Leica before you commit to negative comments about using R glass on the S2. If you read it, you would learn that different crop modes and resolutions will be part of the S2. So, if you imagine you "only" crop to a full frame 24x36, you'll end up with a 24 MP file.

Now, I don't think the segment buying the S2 will want to work with slow manual focusing lenses. As a general rule they want to utilize the system to its fullest with AF, the double shutter system, etc.

But say for example the 80mm f/1.4 could be terrible interesting to use for a few "magic" shots on the S2. Because MF cameras usually don't go under f/2.8 why a f/1.4 would be somewhat a Noctilux on that camera.

R-S adapter will be good and fun. But the main part of interest is not which odd cameras you can attach your R lenses to, but that there will be an R10 and R siblings.

[R10dreamer]

Originally Posted by overgaardcom

Dear redfalo,

Thanks for the coverage.

Leicamateur,
I wish you would read about the S2 and for example the press release from Leica before you commit to negative comments about using R glass on the S2. If you read it, you would learn that different crop modes and resolutions will be part of the S2. So, if you imagine you "only" crop to a full frame 24x36, you'll end up with a 24 MP file.

Now, I don't think the segment buying the S2 will want to work with slow manual focusing lenses. As a general rule they want to utilize the system to its fullest with AF, the double shutter system, etc.

But say for example the 80mm f/1.4 could be terrible interesting to use for a few "magic" shots on the S2. Because MF cameras usually don't go under f/2.8 why a f/1.4 would be somewhat a Noctilux on that camera.

R-S adapter will be good and fun. But the main part of interest is not which odd cameras you can attach your R lenses to, but that there will be an R10 and R siblings.

$22,000 at the present exchange rate is not chump change. Plus the cost of lenses. The declining dollar is adding a $7,000 premium to this camera. Wonder what affect that will have on US sales.

I too, see no point in using R glass on the S camera. Why pay all those $ for a smaller sensor foot print? Looks like you are talking $50,000 to get a camera and 3/4 lenses. Wow.

[guy_mancuso]

We need to remember there are no 1.4 lenses in MF shooting . The fastest lens is a 110mm f2, Maybe one other but the point being the DOF is so shallow with a 2.8 lens it acts more like a 1.4 lens for 35mm. Actually shooting MF myself it really is like a 2 stop DOF difference between MF and 35mm. So even F4 lenses will feel more like F2 in 35mm with regards to DOF. keep this in mind when you are debating the speed of these lenses. Also there is nothing over ISO 1600 at the present time. MF is just a slower world and need to understand that.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by Leicamateur

quote: R lenses won´t fit directly to the S2, but Kaufmann told me: "There will be an adapter".

Seriously, who would want to use R lenses on S2? Since the sensor is 5x% larger than FF there would be lots and lots of vignetting... useless.

I won't be surprised if S2 provides a crop facility to 24x36 (or slightly less ?) to use R lenses via adapter (manual focusing, of course, but probably even the usual auto diaph/ttl metering could be an issue) : after all, this would mean a FF 24 MPixel DSLR.

[mitchell baum]

Two very good reasons to use R glass on the S2:

You already own R glass.
There is a large second hand market in R glass including long telephoto.

With the crop, dof is the same as 35mm film so long tele and fast lenses become more usable on the S2.

Of course, I rather just have an R 10 now. But, if one gets an S2 R glass could be very useful.

Best,

Mitchell

[John Shriver]

I suspect the adapter will be to fit the S2 lenses on the R10, not vice-versa. No way an R lens is going to clear the mirror on the S2. (Unless they did a split mirror like the Bronica S series.) Presumably the electrical interface to the R10 lenses will be identical to the S2 lenses.

[gogopix]

Originally Posted by John Shriver

I suspect the adapter will be to fit the S2 lenses on the R10, not vice-versa. No way an R lens is going to clear the mirror on the S2. (Unless they did a split mirror like the Bronica S series.) Presumably the electrical interface to the R10 lenses will be identical to the S2 lenses.

I believe Dr K referred to an R adapter next year, a year before the R10 (at least)

Also, Robert has shown R lenses to have a generous circle, well over that needed for the S format.

Not speculation, just putting statements together.
A simple lens (APO likely, sort of a reverse MUTAR) would preserve most if not all the resolution.-ok, that IS speculation! :-) )

Regards

PS, FWIW, I have used the LSM 39 280mm on my Contax 645 and it is a great lens, with resolution and no vigneting. I think R lenses were given a lot of heaqdroom

[AlanG]

How is it that R lenses can be mounted close enough to the S2's sensor for infinity focus? Is the body on an R actually thicker than the body of an S2?

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by AlanG

How is it that R lenses can be mounted close enough to the S2's sensor for infinity focus? Is the body on an R actually thicker than the body of an S2?

Afaik the register distance of the S2 is not yet given out by Leica.

[gogopix]

Originally Posted by AlanG

How is it that R lenses can be mounted close enough to the S2's sensor for infinity focus? Is the body on an R actually thicker than the body of an S2?

optically the adapter would need to have a lens element, as the 1.4x do, but to extend the focal plane. Note, when you add an extender to a lens, the effective overall registry distance changes by the thickness of the adapter. Only lensless adapters need to play the "can you reach farther than my body needs' game

[manolo]

Originally Posted by AlanG

How is it that R lenses can be mounted close enough to the S2's sensor for infinity focus? Is the body on an R actually thicker than the body of an S2?

I hope so.

[thrid]

Originally Posted by Leicamateur

quote: R lenses won´t fit directly to the S2, but Kaufmann told me: "There will be an adapter".

Seriously, who would want to use R lenses on S2? Since the sensor is 5x% larger than FF there would be lots and lots of vignetting... useless.

I believe some R lenses will cover formats bigger than 135.
Dare I say that I read somewhere that a few will even cover 6x6?

Perhaps the S2 has a 135 crop mode. The nikon D700 and D3 have a DX (x1.5) crop mode.

[gogopix]

I have used several lenses on mjy Contax 645 with a LTM>Hassey and Hassey>Contax adapter. The 280 is particularly sharp and has a good 'look'

[RobMac]

Interesting as that David Farkas was told by Leica execs during S2 hands-on that-NO R adapter (was a miscommunication). Sounds like a message needs to be straightened out.

[redfalo]

Originally Posted by RobMac

Interesting as that David Farkas was told by Leica execs during S2 hands-on that-NO R adapter (was a miscommunication). Sounds like a message needs to be straightened out.

Well, maybe I really misunderstood Mr. Kaufmann with regards to the adaptor. [On the other hand I´m a professional journalist and don´t have a history of cognition bugs... and I´m pretty sure to recall the conversation exactly how I wrote it in my initial post] Anyway I don´t want to spread rumors that are not based on facts so PLEASE take my initial statement with a grain of salt. [However having seen those impressivly colossal S-Lenses I would really doubt that anyone would like to put them on their R body...]

I would really appreciate an official Leica announcement regarding R compability.
Yours
Olaf

[R10dreamer]

Originally Posted by redfalo

Well, maybe I really misunderstood Mr. Kaufmann with regards to the adaptor. [On the other hand I´m a professional journalist and don´t have a history of cognition bugs... and I´m pretty sure to recall the conversation exactly how I wrote it in my initial post] Anyway I don´t want to spread rumors that are not based on facts so PLEASE take my initial statement with a grain of salt. [However having seen those impressivly colossal S-Lenses I would really doubt that anyone would like to put them on their R body...]

I would really appreciate an official Leica announcement regarding R compability.
Yours
Olaf

I think you have this backwards. Can you put the R lenses on the S2. Not whether you can put the S2 lenses on the R8/9.