My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[dalippe]

All,

The only discussion I've seen on the content of Sean Reid's M9 review is about his high ISO results. But in the "Speed" section was a very troubling remark that, surprisingly, has generated no discussion. Sean, far from being a Leica shill as some have claimed, reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze. On some occasions, he reports, these crashes caused the camera to lose some of the pictures that it had supposedly taken. In either case, the only way to get the camera working again was to remove and reinsert the battery.

This same problem with the M8 was frequently reported on the LUF. I often experienced it myself with my M8s when taking many pictures in rapid succession (I would do this in single shot mode, not continuous, mode). Leica certainly knew about this problem, and they supposedly fixed it for me a few times although the "fixes" never worked. It would be surprising and disappointing if the M9 has the exact same bug.

Has anyone else experienced this? Has anybody heard anything about a response from Leica since Sean's review mentioned this?

[john_newell]

Originally Posted by dalippe

All,

Sean, that shameless Leica shill, reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze.

Can you explain how reporting this qualifies Mr. Reid as a "shameless Leica shill"?

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by john_newell

Can you explain how reporting this qualifies Mr. Reid as a "shameless Leica shill"?

He meant to be ironic, I think.

I've never seen this behavior in normal use of the camera but for the RAW buffer testing, I was continually hammering the camera (continuous mode with repeated bursts to get timings) and I did run into this problem. I've reported it to Leica.

Cheers,

Sean

[Daniel Ortego]

Originally Posted by john_newell

Can you explain how reporting this qualifies Mr. Reid as a "shameless Leica shill"?

Yeah, I was sorta wondering that myself.
Regards,

[35mmSummicron]

I was hoping this was going to be resolved in the M9--I can handle a slower (compared to dslr's) camera, but not one that is unreliable in this respect

Didn't Mark Norton discover in the M8 that this problem was due to a flaw in the off-the-shelf chip used? Would be a shame if Leica used the same old, knowing it should be replaced......


andy

[dalippe]

Originally Posted by john_newell

Can you explain how reporting this qualifies Mr. Reid as a "shameless Leica shill"?

I know irony can be harder to spot in written language than face-to-face, but I figured that one was impossible to miss, even in the circus that is the internet.

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by john_newell

Can you explain how reporting this qualifies Mr. Reid as a "shameless Leica shill"?

I think he was referring to another post and another forum where Sean was said to have a agenda that favored Leica, a shill for the company.

To the OP's comment.
The M9 has not been reworked from the ground up. It does share many of the same parts and flaws as the M8 did and still does.
In the video of the assembly on the M9 when a tech was going to clean the sensor, @ 14m 40s +/-, when she first tried to enter Sensor Cleaning Mode the camera froze making her take out the battery and reinsert it. This same thing has happen to every M8 and M8.2 ever made at one time or another.

[35mmSummicron]

....sigh........

I still plan on buying an M9, but I kinda find that unacceptable, given the new high pricetag.......

[dalippe]

I've edited my first post to avoid any further confusion. Rather than rely on readers to catch irony, I have been explicit about the fact that I think this fact provides evidence against the claim that Sean is a Leica shill.

[arthury]

>reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze.

This has been the least used feature in my M8 and I suspect it will remain that way for the M9 if I buy it. If you want the machine-gun mode, the Leica-M system is clearly the wrong place to be.

First of all, there's no high speed continuous AF, why would you even contemplate continuous shooting using your M?

Now, if your subject even moved a bit in between frames, they will be out of focus.

Are you continuously focusing it manually? Then, how do you keep your camera still when focusing?

OK, you're shooting static subjects? Then, why do you need to shoot in continuous mode?

Leica can take that feature out and I will not miss a thing.

[thompsonkirk]

Sorry, Arthur, to disagree with you entirely:

--Using the Continuous mode works well to prevent camera movement at slow shutter speeds. At 1/30 & below, I always shoot 2-3 frames.

--It's great when a subject is moving through a scene. You can't pick the decisive moment when the next exposure couldn't be the better one.

--In portraits, or any time people are talking, I always use C mode to get a vsriety expressions & avoid mouth distortions. Often a person relaxes after hearing the first click & then the expression is more spontaneous.

The only real disadvantage is that you can't use Continuous & Discreet modes simultaneously.

Kirk

[35mmSummicron]

I'm sorry, but how are you in any position to tell me how I should be shooting with cameras that I pay for?

I shoot commercial fashion work, I like Leica M cameras.

The Leica M8 and M9 have incorporated the continuous drive function, therefore it should WORK, read NOT randomly crash/freezeup the camera.

Leica M film cameras have had the long tradition and reputation of being the rock solid go-to camera when all others fail. If Leica wants to continue that tradition in the digital age, this problem isn't even a question--it NEEDS to be resolved.

What if you were a war photographer, in a dangerous situation trying shoot and all of a sudden your camera freezes up? Silly.


ps. the M8 (and supposedly M9) freezeup problem is not just when shooting in Continuos mode, it also happens in Single shot mode if you shoot in rapid frame succession.

my two cents.

Originally Posted by arthury

>reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze.

This has been the least used feature in my M8 and I suspect it will remain that way for the M9 if I buy it. If you want the machine-gun mode, the Leica-M system is clearly the wrong place to be.

First of all, there's no high speed continuous AF, why would you even contemplate continuous shooting using your M?

Now, if your subject even moved a bit in between frames, they will be out of focus.

Are you continuously focusing it manually? Then, how do you keep your camera still when focusing?

OK, you're shooting static subjects? Then, why do you need to shoot in continuous mode?

Leica can take that feature out and I will not miss a thing.

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by arthury

>reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze.

This has been the least used feature in my M8 and I suspect it will remain that way for the M9 if I buy it. If you want the machine-gun mode, the Leica-M system is clearly the wrong place to be.

First of all, there's no high speed continuous AF, why would you even contemplate continuous shooting using your M?

Now, if your subject even moved a bit in between frames, they will be out of focus.

Are you continuously focusing it manually? Then, how do you keep your camera still when focusing?

OK, you're shooting static subjects? Then, why do you need to shoot in continuous mode?

Leica can take that feature out and I will not miss a thing.

Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it is OK for the camera to freeze if someone else does use it or that it should be removed.
I use form time to time. Mainly when I'm shooting at lower shutter speeds but I have also used it with the camera mounted on a tripod doing pano shots moving the ball head as the camera is firing.

[arthury]

Sure ... it's your camera, you are free to do whatever you want. At 2-3 frames per sec, it still sounded a little silly to use it to capture the decisive moment versus 8 frames per sec on a D3.

I agree, the M9 should not fail at $7K.

[dalippe]

Originally Posted by arthury

>reports that when firing in continuous mode, the M9 sometimes froze.

This has been the least used feature in my M8 and I suspect it will remain that way for the M9 if I buy it. If you want the machine-gun mode, the Leica-M system is clearly the wrong place to be.

First of all, there's no high speed continuous AF, why would you even contemplate continuous shooting using your M?

Now, if your subject even moved a bit in between frames, they will be out of focus.

Are you continuously focusing it manually? Then, how do you keep your camera still when focusing?

OK, you're shooting static subjects? Then, why do you need to shoot in continuous mode?

Leica can take that feature out and I will not miss a thing.

There is so much wrong with this post that it is hard to know where to start. So in no particular order:

1. You weren't considerate enough to actually read my post. I said this happens to me in single shot mode, when taking many frames in quick succession.
2. Even if it only happened in continuous mode, that wouldn't be OK. It isn't OK for a camera to crash because a control is set to a provided value, period. I would make the apparently controversial claim that this is true even if arthury doesn't value that control.
3. Your post expresses a limited view of what an M camera can do. Times when it makes sense to take many shots in quick succession include (but are no doubt not limited to):
o Zone focused
o A toddler in a high chair, given a setting that has a foot or two of DOF. They make endless wonderful expressions and it is worth trying to capture as many as possible.
4. Your unsolicited advice was rather presumptuous. I've shot some 40,000 exposures with my M8 and have a pretty good sense of when the M system is right for me.

EDIT: arthury, you posted your reply while I was typing this. Thank you.

[wilfredo]

If this is a genuine issue, why should Leica fix it if people are willing to shell out $7000.00 for the M9 "as is"?

[35mmSummicron]

While this forum is a very useful resource with a wealth of knowledge, it is unbelievably frustrating having to sift through the countless useless posts trying to get constructive answers.....

Wilfredo, to answer your question, the M9 to me has more improvements over the M8 to justify an upgrade even IF they didn't resolve the freezeup issue. And regardless, Leica should resolve this, when the camera freezes, you loose all frames in the buffer, that's like having a film Leica with light leaks.

Originally Posted by wilfredo

If this is a genuine issue, why should Leica fix it if people are willing to shell out $7000.00 for the M9 "as is"?

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by 35mmSummicron

when the camera freezes, you loose all frames in the buffer, .

Sometimes, not always.

[35mmSummicron]

Do tell Sean!

I've developed a pretty quick technique on my M8 classic of removing the baseplate, battery, reinserting, deleting the last frame on the card (as its usually corrupt from the freezeup) and going back to shooting.....

Any series of frames leading to the crash, I usually consider lost and try to reshoot.

Originally Posted by sean_reid

Sometimes, not always.

[andrewrossphotographs]

Originally Posted by Shootist

I think he was referring to another post and another forum where Sean was said to have a agenda that favored Leica, a shill for the company.

To the OP's comment.
The M9 has not been reworked from the ground up. It does share many of the same parts and flaws as the M8 did and still does.
In the video of the assembly on the M9 when a tech was going to clean the sensor, @ 14m 40s +/-, when she first tried to enter Sensor Cleaning Mode the camera froze making her take out the battery and reinsert it. This same thing has happen to every M8 and M8.2 ever made at one time or another.

Are you referring to the "Video Tour of the Leica Assembly" video? If correct, the camera that is cleaned by the technician at the end of the video is a M8 and not a M9 as far as I can see. Perhaps this problem of the M8 has been addressed.

Anyone with a M9 can verify?