Michael Hiles Posted September 29, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would apprecite a little help/clarification. If I understand correctly the Sunny 16 rule is: "For subjects in bright or hazy sun, use aperature f16 and shutter at 1/(Film ASA)." For what it is worth, this is an EV value of 15. My experience and meter tells me this wont work, and in practice is about 3 stops off. In this light conditions, my meter set for 200 ASA and experience tell me about f5.6 and 1/250th. I wonder if others have similar experience - or am I missing something (again). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Hi Michael Hiles, Take a look here Sunny 16 Rule. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andym911 Posted September 29, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 29, 2008 Michael Sunny 16 says ASA 100 F16 1/125 Assuming your exposure is ok for asa 200 it would translate to ASA 100 F11 1/125 so actually just one stop off....and it is just a guide and indeed I often find myself exposing as you do....so called sunny 11:D make sense? andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 29, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 29, 2008 A lot depends on where you are. Sunny in Montreal is a bit different from sunny in Florida, for example. 1/125th at f8 with 100 ASA film is about right in bright conditions in NW England, in my experience. So that's 2 stops off Sunny 16. Using black and white or colour reversal film gives you plenty of latitude to play with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 29, 2008 Share #4 Posted September 29, 2008 I would apprecite a little help/clarification. If I understand correctly the Sunny 16 rule is: "For subjects in bright or hazy sun, use aperature f16 and shutter at 1/(Film ASA)." For what it is worth, this is an EV value of 15. Not quite, according to my Gossen and Weston meters, which show 1/200 sec at f/16 as EV 15.7. And of course 1/400 at f/16 is EV 16.7. My experience and meter tells me this wont work, and in practice is about 3 stops off. In this light conditions, my meter set for 200 ASA and experience tell me about f5.6 and 1/250th. I wonder if others have similar experience - or am I missing something (again). There are lots of variables. I find that the f/16 rule works within its limits. If you look at one of the old detailed exposure tables of which the f/16 rule is effectively just one data point, they (I'm looking at the BS table here, but the ASA one gives very similar results), you'll find that the f/16 rule is only for front-lit subjects in clear sun. Hazy sunshine requires another stop, and side-lighting up to another stop. Plus any quirks in your meter and shutter. If you're using B&W film the way you develop it makes a difference too; and colour negative film is amazingly tolerant of overexposure. But the bottom line with exposure is always about getting the results you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 29, 2008 Share #5 Posted September 29, 2008 Lot of variations, depending on latitude of the place, light reflected on the subject from the scene, hour, altitude over the sea, season... but a "dumb's rule" that gives a base to reason on... and allows to shot when meterless, rather confident not to make big exp. mistakes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 29, 2008 Share #6 Posted September 29, 2008 Absolutely agree with much of what has been said already. Sunny-16 is a guide rather than a hard and fast rule, because of all the potential variables. In the UK, except in the height of Summer(!) I tend to use Sunny 12, opening up a stop or two on a cloudy day, and three stops or more for shade etc. Indoors I get decent results at f3.5 and 1/40. Experiment - film is still (relatively) cheap. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted September 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you all. This is a great help. Montreal and Florida are very different, light-wise, and clearly so is the UK. Happy to hear that people use the idea in ways that suit the circumstances. You all obviously do what I have been doing - know a fixed point and adjust from there. This all tells me I was not missing some great principle that had snuck by me. But I am not tossing my meter either. This all started when I found a web site called The Ultimate Exposure Computer. The idea looked good, but the results did not agree with my meter - which I trust after many years of mutual and beneficial support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 29, 2008 Share #8 Posted September 29, 2008 Sunny 16 works for me on the brightest days in Summer, around midday. Most of the time its a stop extra so ISO = shutter speed and f11 on a sunny/bright day then opening up depending on actual weather conditions. Most of the time I do use a meter, take an initial reading and adjust the f stop or shutter speed depending on shade/subject etc., re metering if the light changes dramatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadHahn Posted September 30, 2008 Share #9 Posted September 30, 2008 I made a little file in Excel based on the Ultimate Exposure Meter that I printed out and carry in my wallet. It has from EV -1 to EV 16. for ASA 100, 400 and 800 from f2.0 to f16 and shutter speeds 1 second to 1/1000. When I was shooting my IIf and using this sheet I was able to make spot on exposures. I find that using this method with a metered camera will mess you up. If you are exposing for sunny 16 a lot of times your camera's meter will show a different exposure due to what the meter is seeing. This also happens when I meter off the grass (18% Gray) and then move the camera to the person I'm shooting. The meter shows that my exposure is wrong, but it's not. Chad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_r Posted September 30, 2008 Share #10 Posted September 30, 2008 The rule is actually f/16 at 1/(film speed in ISO) for BRIGHT sun and LANDSCAPES. For hazy sun, cloudy bright and cloudy dull respectively, open up by one-stop increments. Similarly for group photos open up one, and for portraits open up one more. As others have said, the elevation of the sun above the horizon also makes a big difference, which means that both latitude and season are important. There are more comprehensive tables which take these into account in the appendices of the old Ilford Manual of Photography. However, these are so far removed from a rule of thumb that methinks one is better off with a meter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted September 30, 2008 Share #11 Posted September 30, 2008 I guess the question one asks in consideration of the Sunny 16 rule is why are you out taking photos in the harsh light of mid-day anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_r Posted September 30, 2008 Share #12 Posted September 30, 2008 It's just a neat aide-memoire, Allan, from which you can reconstruct the entire exposure table. But anyway, why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted September 30, 2008 I guess the question one asks in consideration of the Sunny 16 rule is why are you out taking photos in the harsh light of mid-day anyway? Point well made - I rarely do for obvious reasons. But the whole notion of a system that can stand in for the meter is attractive. However, Sunny 16 it is clearly an additional piece of data and not a panacea that will turn around my life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted September 30, 2008 Share #14 Posted September 30, 2008 Point well made - I rarely do for obvious reasons. But the whole notion of a system that can stand in for the meter is attractive. However, Sunny 16 it is clearly an additional piece of data and not a panacea that will turn around my life. I find it accurate enough for neg. work, and its a good check for the lightmeter! I tend to use a system based on the Kodak film leaflets which clasifed the scene as below, with one stop more for each step, so if you take sunny 16 for bright sun, then Hazy sun = 11 Cloudy Bright = 8 cloudy dull = 5.6 after that experience is useful! I have known lightmeters less accurate than that ! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
santila Posted September 30, 2008 Share #15 Posted September 30, 2008 Ask Puxatony. Sunny f16 applies when your shadow is not longer the 3x, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemayeux Posted September 30, 2008 Share #16 Posted September 30, 2008 I have used Kodak's recommendation for exposure when my meter wasn't working. For Kodachrome 64 Kodak recommends 1/125 @ f11 for bright or hazy sun with distinct shadows. (which since I won't shoot f11 translates to f8@250). This works pretty well in the mid latitudes of North America. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted September 30, 2008 I have used Kodak's recommendation for exposure when my meter wasn't working. For Kodachrome 64 Kodak recommends 1/125 @ f11 for bright or hazy sun with distinct shadows. (which since I won't shoot f11 translates to f8@250). This works pretty well in the mid latitudes of North America. Good point Paul (and Gerry). For many years many amateurs had nothing but the box and the data sheet to go on. I often do not quite agree with the manufactures' stated ASA for B&W film, but for Kodachrome I believe Kodak which means I believe the box recommendations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 1, 2008 Share #18 Posted October 1, 2008 I do digital with sun 16 when I use a Nikon D40 and some old non meter chipped lenses or when I hang my M bellows and viso lenses on the front. I may even get better exposures than when I meter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted October 1, 2008 Share #19 Posted October 1, 2008 Here is the rule I alway remember, maybe from Kodak orginally? ASA 25, 1/100th @ f8.0 in bright sunlight. If in doubt bracket.-Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_r Posted October 1, 2008 Share #20 Posted October 1, 2008 ISO 64 1/125 @ f/11 ISO 25 1/100 @ f/8 These are both exactly the same as the sunny 16 rule as normally stated: 1/film speed @ f/16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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