mirekti Posted December 8, 2013 Share #1 Posted December 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, one of things many complained in this forum were the files which come from M240 looked flat. I agree, and I'm aware it is due to the camera's higher dynamic range. I wouldn't go into the colors discussion here, as there is already one topic related to it. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/310048-m240-color-test-oh-oh.html#post2563122 What bothers me a bit, is why Leica didn't try to create it's own profile for raw files that would closely match "Leica look". If I understand it correctly, there is an Embedded profile within the Lightroom (software that gets delivered with M240 by Leica), but this profile doesn't do anything, but makes reds even more red. I tried many things in Lightroom, and I was able get the files look better, but I wasn't able to fully satisfy my brain. Eventually (with suggestions of some forum members), I kind of found a way to make a starting point for my files by using Color Efex from Nik. The changes I make there I simply cannot do with the LR only. However, if one uses Nik software, one will double the number of files, and those tiff files are usually four times larger. If you could give some comments about PP you perform to get the look you want, I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll start with the things I do, and I wish something like this would exist within a profile Lighroom would come with. On the other hand, I'm not so sure this is possible at all, as Nik makes changes on the pixel level. First six samples were done with all Lightroom settings unchanged, except the Lens profile enabled. In Nik, I added Contrast Only filter with all parameters set to 0, and Soft Contrast to 33%. In Pro Contrast tab, I set Correct Contrast to 23%, and Dynamic Contrast to 30% The last sample was done by using Contrast only tab. Doing this, I also noticed the skin colors get better. Of course, not everyone might like the way I do it, but that's one of the reasons I started this topic. I would really like to know what you think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2482862'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Hi mirekti, Take a look here How do you make your M240 files punchier?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mirekti Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted December 8, 2013 ...some more. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2482864'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted December 8, 2013 ...and some more. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2482866'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted December 8, 2013 ...here only Contrast only filter was used, all set to 0 except Soft contrast to 33%. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2482867'>More sharing options...
Marten Root Posted December 8, 2013 Share #5 Posted December 8, 2013 Hi Mirekti, an interesting thought and something which also kept me busy for quite a while and still does. It's necessary we exchange some ideas to see if we can come up with a 'solution' for something which does not entirely satisfy. So far I have only experimented in LR 5.2 but have used your 'recipe' in NIK as well and have transferred some of my own problematic M240 files and our rules or recipes surely do point in a good direction. I have not found any general rules and found my own recipes still arbitrary and I am looking for some objective conclusions. I'll keep you posted and hope others will do the same. Marten Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted December 8, 2013 Share #6 Posted December 8, 2013 Would it be worth allowing us access to the original DNG's so results are thereafter shared and have a common start point? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted December 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure. Single files in reversed order than posted and a zip archive are available here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tmg5c6yhg1z3zjf/viJhiDaf_J Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted December 9, 2013 Share #8 Posted December 9, 2013 I have not done much with them. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaw8vjsdoezoxi4/Two%20images.pdf Each image, there are two versions, one which my standard import into LR, the other is then given the Auto treatment in LR. Auto tends to get down with the black slider more than I do at the outset. It's just a start as for most images, that's mostly all I do, run with my import plus / minus a little tweak here and there. If I think image is a little more in need, then I give the Auto a try, sometimes it gives me a better result. I go with it or tweak it or try something else entirely. I would welcome your thoughts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2013 Share #9 Posted December 9, 2013 What is the “ Leica look” ? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 9, 2013 Share #10 Posted December 9, 2013 Ok, the first thing was to open open the RAW and click 'Auto'. With the image in Photoshop I first opened it in Viveza. The first thing to address is the veiling flare in the centre of the picture which I did with a control point placed over it and increasing Contrast, reducing Brightness, and increasing Structure. Another control point was placed over the lower left area and Shadow Adjustment was used to lighten the dark and distracting shadows. These adjustments were to try and find some balance in the picture instead of the eye flitting around trying to find an overall structure. I then opened it in Color Efex Pro and added a mild rectangular lens vignette, again to add image structure and stop highlights dragging the eye to the edge of the frame. This was not enough so I then did some mild burning around the edges in Photoshop, selectively burning the highlights and mid tones. But elements in the image kept distracting me, the area of focus was all over the place, but mainly it was dragging my eye to the bottom left still, so I selected the centre of the image and then softened the rest using Lens Blur in Photoshop. This left the centre sharp and forced the eye to be drawn there. I then sharpened just this central area. A few tweaks with Saturation in Viveza, increasing it and decreasing it in selective areas was the last adjustment. It's not ideal, but its like asking a stranger for directions and they answer with 'I wouldn't start from here'. Steve Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2483375'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 9, 2013 Share #11 Posted December 9, 2013 This is version 2 as the one above looks nothing like the one I saw on my monitor, the colours seem to have been intensified by uploading it? Steve Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218084-how-do-you-make-your-m240-files-punchier/?do=findComment&comment=2483387'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted December 9, 2013 What is the “ Leica look” ? Something I've been looking for. I thought it would be the files that come from Leica camera, but they were not. ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) This is version 2.Steve This really looks great!! Your comments are highly appreciated. Edited December 9, 2013 by mirekti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I have not done much with them. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaw8vjsdoezoxi4/Two%20images.pdf Unfortunatelly this file is not available. Other than that. I gave a thought to what I wrote in the posts above. The corrections that 250swb made were great, but this was not acctually what I was after. The photos I posted are not something I consider a great work, they should just represent the flatness of raw files, what simple corrections in Nik do to them, and the fact I cannot get this by Lightroom only. For example, in photo 6, once I did the Nik corrections the dry concrete started to look fine. Before the contrast corrections were done it looked kind of greyish. I'll try to explain it, but it's a bit hard to put it in words. I'm a bit confused as sometimes I strugle a lot to get the photos "right". It might be my expectations were wrong too. I thought the right way would be to get the files in raw development tool very close to the final product, and the fact one took a photo in raw would give one more freedom with the files. I'll dramatize a bit, but at the moment the photos are (my opinion) as if I got the black photo and all the sliders ready to pull out the exposure first, than contrast, colors etc. to get the photo I took. I understand it's much better than described in the last sentence, I was just trying to give you an idea what I complain about. For me working with the files is sometimes real PITA. I hope nobody gets offended here. It's just me struggling with myself, I guess. Edited December 9, 2013 by mirekti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted December 9, 2013 Share #15 Posted December 9, 2013 I think that there's a tendency for people to overdo the post processing, producing a result that might certainly look 'punchy' at first glance but is actually not a good representation of reality. Sometimes it's deliberate of course, you want a very contrasty or highly saturated result for a particular image. But it's not to say that it should be applied in every case. In the hi fi world it's similar to people pressing the 'bass boost' button on the amplifier. Very high end amps don't have such a feature, nor do they usually have tone controls. They simply amplify the recorded material rather than changing it on the way. IMHO some of your images above look overdone compared to the originals. Each to their own of course, essentially it's a matter of how you want to interpret the subject. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted December 9, 2013 Share #16 Posted December 9, 2013 mirekti, Have you tried making color profiles with a ColorChecker Passport? It's quite easy and makes a difference. After the firmware update for my M, I'm now getting the best coloration I've ever obtained from a digital camera. I use Lightroom 5.3 and Photoshop CC for post-processing, but honestly a decent file with a proper color profile applied should look great with little or no post-processing. Check out this video on the Color Checker -- I don't like the tutorials from X-rite (the manufacturer) at all, they make things appear more complicated than they are and [to me] the presenter is obnoxious, but this YouTube video is right to the point and straightforward. Hope this helps, it sure made a difference for me! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted December 9, 2013 Thanks for the reply. Eventually, I might end up doing it. Zum Gluck it is not complicated at all ;-) Dual Illuminant Profiles Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted December 9, 2013 Share #18 Posted December 9, 2013 Just to clarify -- you don't need to use a dual illuminant profile with the color checker. Just a few test shots and you're covered for most use. I use only three for non-commercial work: noon outdoor sun, noon outdoor overcast and SF 58 flash. It's actually very easy, take three different pictures of the color checker, create a profile for each in LR (a piece of cake), then apply in the Develop module. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted December 10, 2013 Just a few test shots and you're covered for most use I will probably order this and a i1Dislplay pro, however I have few questions. When you make a profile in the sun, is the checker facing the sun or it is better to do it around 1PM? I mean, if I turn it agains the sun it will create a shaddow. Do you make profiles per lens as it was suggested in the video or just pick up the most used lens and use it with all other combinations? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted December 10, 2013 Share #20 Posted December 10, 2013 For regular use I'm pretty lazy. I just set the color checker on a table on my deck at around noon. point the camera downward, focus and take a picture. Then I do the same thing when it's overcast. Import into LR and create a profile. The noon sun profile I made mid-September seems to work fine right now, even though it's winter and the light is different even at noon. I haven't bothered with different profiles for different lenses [yet]. When I'm on a photo shoot for my books, I take a picture of the color checker every time I photograph a new scene. It just takes a second and the calibration from one image can later be applied to all shots from that scene. It's important to remember that the camera calibration profile and setting white balance/color temperature are two different things, each needing to be addressed separately. I also found these videos helpful: 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.