w5hm Posted July 26, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a Mint Model IIIF that I just acquired and I have a question concerning this camera. It has a serial no. of 792197 and it is my understanding that this should be a Red Dial model but the syncro dial is engraved in black. The shutter speeds are1/25,1/50,1/75,1/100,1/200,1/500,1/1000 and Bulb. It has the self timer built in. Can someone please explain why the syncro dial is in black and not red? Thank you, w5hm@comcast.net Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Hi w5hm, Take a look here Model IIIF. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
doubice Posted July 26, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 26, 2009 I have seen seen some IIIf red dial cameras with dirt in the red numbers. Try cleaning the top plate with a moist brush - maybe the red colour will come through? Best, Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted July 26, 2009 Jan, Thanks for the reply to my question. My oldest Son sent me this camera and he had just had it cleaned by a professional Leica tech in Atlanta so there could not be any dirt in the red letters. Any other suggestions? Any will be appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 26, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 26, 2009 With those shutter speeds it must be a Red Dial. The red numbers on mine are very dark, possibly also a little dirty. It's unlikely that they would touch the engraving during a normal camera service, so I would suggest that it is as Jan says. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted July 27, 2009 James, Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm a little confused as to where those red letters or numbers are supposed to be. Could you enlighten me? I have never owned a IIIF before but have had an M-3 sometime back. I could send you pictures of the camera by e-mail if necessary. Thanks. w5hm Harry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 27, 2009 With those shutter speeds it must be a Red Dial. The red numbers on mine are very dark, possibly also a little dirty. It's unlikely that they would touch the engraving during a normal camera service, so I would suggest that it is as Jan says. James, I just cleaned the syncro dial and the numbers are still Black. I have seen some Red Dial IIIF's on the web and they too were black. As you can surmise, I am not too familiar with these older Leicas. To use an electronic flash on this camera what shutter speed should I use? The camera will trigger my old flash with the shutter cable plugged into the back of the body. The flash is probably over 30 years old now but still operates perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 27, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The red paint is in the numbers 0 -- 20 under the flat synch dial coaxial with the main shutter speed dial. The dial sets a delay (in milliseconds) in the triggering of flashbulbs, necessary for their use at any speed faster than 1/25th. Tables for the setting with different types of bulbs used to come with the camera. A setting of '0' is equivalent to X synch, which is what you use for electronic flash. The proper shutter speed for electronic with a red dial F is 1/25th, because that is the fastest speed at which the shutter curtains clear the film gate long enough for the firing of the flash. At faster speeds, at least one curtain is always partially masking the gate. (This is of course the reason why 1/50th is still the fastest synch speed with any M camera with Oskar Barnack's classical cloth shutter.) The old man from the Age of Flash Powder Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 27, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 27, 2009 THIS should be the std. look of your IIIf top plate and dial : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And HERE : Leica IF, IIF, IIIFinstruction manual, user manual, free PDF camera manuals You can find the manual of IIIf, included the specific instruction for flash synchro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And HERE : Leica IF, IIF, IIIFinstruction manual, user manual, free PDF camera manuals You can find the manual of IIIf, included the specific instruction for flash synchro. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91686-model-iiif/?do=findComment&comment=973991'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted July 27, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 27, 2009 BTW: That serieal number is from 1955, which is during the red dial run. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted July 27, 2009 THIS should be the std. look of your IIIf top plate and dial : [ATTACH]153996[/ATTACH] And HERE : Leica IF, IIF, IIIFinstruction manual, user manual, free PDF camera manuals You can find the manual of IIIf, included the specific instruction for flash synchro. Well, I guess I have a Black Dial as the numbers under the shutter speed knob are all black, but with the Ser. No. being 792197 I think it should have been a Red Dial. Maybe I have an "Odd Ball" camera. Thanks for the reply. I downloaded the instruction manual from that site last week. It's been a lot of help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted July 27, 2009 BTW: That serieal number is from 1955, which is during the red dial run. I must have gotten one of the last Black Dial Models as all the numbers under the Shutter Speed dial are all black but it has all of the Red Dial Shutter Speeds on it. Confusing to say the least. Thanks for the reply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted July 27, 2009 The red paint is in the numbers 0 -- 20 under the flat synch dial coaxial with the main shutter speed dial. The dial sets a delay (in milliseconds) in the triggering of flashbulbs, necessary for their use at any speed faster than 1/25th. Tables for the setting with different types of bulbs used to come with the camera. A setting of '0' is equivalent to X synch, which is what you use for electronic flash. The proper shutter speed for electronic with a red dial F is 1/25th, because that is the fastest speed at which the shutter curtains clear the film gate long enough for the firing of the flash. At faster speeds, at least one curtain is always partially masking the gate. (This is of course the reason why 1/50th is still the fastest synch speed with any M camera with Oskar Barnack's classical cloth shutter.) The old man from the Age of Flash Powder Lars, Thanks for setting me straight concerning using an electronic flash with this camera. I don't take many flash pictures but would probably have used the 1/50th shutter speed with this old electronic flash of mine if you had not told me to use 1/25th. Also I did not know where to set the sync dial for electronic flash. It is now set at 0. Age of Flash Powder? I thought I was old. I'm pushing 82. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 27, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 27, 2009 I must have gotten one of the last Black Dial Models ... Unlikely, as Black Dial Models ended LONG before your camera's serial no. I own a IIIf serial no. 670 xxx, and it is already a Red Dial Model. Enjoy your camera nonetheless. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w5hm Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted July 27, 2009 Unlikely, as Black Dial Models ended LONG before your camera's serial no. I own a IIIf serial no. 670 xxx, and it is already a Red Dial Model. Enjoy your camera nonetheless. Andy Andy, I agree that Black Dial Models ended long before my camera's ser. no. I'd sure like to know how this happened, but I'll enjoy it anyway. It operates flawlessly. I don't think the numbers being black affects the operation of the camera at all. Maybe I got a "Dukes Mixture" with this one. A friend in Chicago gave it to me then I passed it on to my oldest Son in Atlanta and he sent it back to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 27, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 27, 2009 I think the most likely explanation in that case is that someone repainted the engraved numbers at some point with black paint, for whatever reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 27, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 27, 2009 I think the most likely explanation in that case is that someone repainted the engraved numbers at some point with black paint, for whatever reason. This could be, indeed... anyway, I gave a look to "archives" and found 3 precise references to a similar issue: a "Red Dial by number" which has indeed a Black Dial scale : - s/n 699517 auctioned 1979 - s/n 715831 same auction - s/n 728874 Italian collection (in my town... but not me ) all 3 with "regular" shutter times (25-50-75...) and self timer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 28, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 28, 2009 Age of Flash Powder? I thought I was old. I'm pushing 82. Thanks again. It is a fact that pre-packaged flash powder was sold in most European countries when I was a child (I am 73). Few cameras at that time had any kind of flash synch; the IIIf (1951) was the first Leica with a p/c contact. The charges were in nitrocellulose packages that looked like tea bags, complete with the string loop (for hanging this illuminating bomb from the chandelier). There was also a fuse. After the Christmas dinner you suspended your bomb in the middle of the room, pushed the apprehensive crowd up against a wall, set up your roll film folder with the shutter on T, lit the fuse, and BANG. Then a light rain of magnesium oxide (talc!) rained on the scene ... The thing was not unlike a SWAT stun grenade in its effect. But the most fun was when the fuse went out, and you tried to re-light it. Those were the days. The wonder was that few camera shops went up in a blaze of glory. The old man from the Age of Flash Powder Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted July 28, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 28, 2009 It still is the age of Flash Powder:D Z11 PYRO SUPPLY Flash Powders, (Smokeless) Flame powders, Color and Sparkle Additives... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted July 28, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 28, 2009 Used it for photographic purposes lately? The old man from the Age of Flash Bang Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 28, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 28, 2009 Flash Bang indeed - they supply 1Lb packs!:eek: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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