hestoft Posted November 22, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 22, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here is a copy of an email I received from my dealer: In an effort to keep my promise that I would keep you informed of anything I learn about the M8 situation, I offer you the following. I wanted to quickly share with you what I've just learned about how Leica will addressing the questions many of you have had on the M8. Official announcements to the public will be delivered no later than Monday, 27 Nov. In the mean time, please read below, an excerpt from a letter to all Leica sales reps, from Roger Horn, sent this afternoon, Wednesday 22 Nov. 2006. Dear All: I just received the M8 announcements, and I mean Announcements. There is a letter for the agency, one for the dealer, one for the consumers that have already purchased an M8 and one additional one that is a question and answer memo. About 25 pages in all. Since all letters have to be read and re-read to make sure there are no inconsistencies for our market, I thought it best to just give you the highlights which can be shared with your dealer or consumers. Christian and Shirley will make sure all the appropriate letters are mailed on Monday. The info is also due to be on the Leica Web-site on Friday. 1. The "Banding" and "Mirror/Ghost" effects have been thoroughly investigated and the root cause has been identified and eliminated. The remedy will enable every M8 to meet and exceed Leica performance standards. All customers that have purchased and taken delivery of an M8 will be entitled to an upgrade performed in Solms, free of charge. Specific measures will be taken to enhance customer loyalty that will be outlined in detail in the memo's issued Monday. In summary, every one of these customers will be entitled to purchase a new M lens at a 30% discount directly from the factory in Solms. 2. The above average sensitivity for infrared light can be compensated by using an IR filter. Leica will make available two free IR filters of any size (there are 7 filter sizes for the current M lenses) for M8 purchasers. I am sure the logistics of this is in the memo's but I have not read all 25 pages. Delivery of these free of charge IR filters will commence in February, 2007. Again, further details will follow, but now you know what I know. Shipment of the M8 will resume sometime next week - though the specific day of arrival and quantities deliverable are yet unknown. Thanks again for your patience and support over the past couple of weeks. I have no doubt in my mind the M8 is back on track for becoming one of the most successful products in Leica history! So... the GOOD news is free filters, the BAD news seems to be a trip back to Solms for our cameras. Ralf-Finn Hestoft HESTOFT | flash detection Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 22, 2006 Posted November 22, 2006 Hi hestoft, Take a look here NEW info from my dealer!!! . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
blakley Posted November 22, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 22, 2006 Ralf-Finn, thanks very much for the information. If you are likely to have more discussions with your contact for information about other issues, the one I'd like most to see addressed is how non-current lenses (e.g. original f/1.2 Noct) and non-Leica lenses (e.g. Zeiss or CV) are to be accomodated - and in particular whether wider-than-28mm lenses will be able to be corrected in-camera for cyan corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hestoft Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted November 22, 2006 It sounds like there will be a much more extensive announcement from Leica on Monday the 27th. This was just a quick read of a 25-page letter by a dealer rep. Ralf-Finn HESTOFT | flash detection Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted November 22, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 22, 2006 Thank you very much for sharing these good news (at least for me...). I can live with the filters and I can also wait for them, specially since most of my work is in B&W. I just hope that I will receive my M8 asap. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 23, 2006 Share #5 Posted November 23, 2006 Ralf-Finn, Thank you for this update with basically good news. Of course, the devil is in the detail which we don't see yet, but I can wait till Friday. The number of free filters is a hard one to quantify. Personally, I need seven! Some users of course, will need only one. (Please claim the other one for me, somebody). 30% discount on a lens from Solms. Yeah! I just bought mine for full retail with my M8. Does that make me happy? NO! Trip back to Solms: OK, that was pretty much expected, but in the past, the trip from Australia and back, via the importer/dealer typically takes 3 months! That has to radically improved, at least for this occassion. Lets now wait for the official and FULL story before getting too excited. Cheers, Erl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 23, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 23, 2006 So... the GOOD news is free filters, the BAD news seems to be a trip back to Solms for our cameras. Hey, the good news is that they believe the streaking and ghosting will soon be a memory. I wonder if in the 25 pages, there is anything about the new firmware. And whether it will support vignetting correction for noncoded lenses (with and without filters) if asked nicely. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham_mitchell Posted November 23, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 23, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) It will be interesting to learn what caused the banding and how it was fixed. I'm happy to see that Leica is rewarding loyal customers with the 30% gesture. Leica is back on track! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
espressogeek Posted November 23, 2006 Share #8 Posted November 23, 2006 That is basically good news. I can correct most of my casting problems in RAW. The free filters will be a nice bonus though. I'm VERY HAPPY that Leica will provide a REAL FIX for the banding/blobing/ghosting. The 30% lens discount is nice but what lenses should I buy ;-) ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmires Posted November 23, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 23, 2006 In summary, every one of these customers will be entitled to purchase a new M lens at a 30% discount directly from the factory in Solms. Noctilux, here I come! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted November 23, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 23, 2006 30 % of what price ? Leica USA list price, or regular list price (like in Hong Kong ) ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 23, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 23, 2006 30 % of what price ? Leica USA list price, or regular list price (like in Hong Kong ) ?? Should be 30% off factory price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twom4 Posted November 23, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 23, 2006 Should be 30% off factory price. That would be about 10% ABOVE Hong Kong prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted November 23, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 23, 2006 Although this is preliminary information, it certainly sounds accurate. To me at least, it's disappointing news. Yes some of the problems appear to have been solved, which is an excellent first step. But the sensor still requires IR filters to do what it should do without them. One side of my brain says, it's ok. This is not unlike the 45mm and 30mm lenses for the dearly-departed Hasselblad XPan, which pretty much required a center-weighted ND filter to deliver a balanced exposure across the film plane. But Hasselblad/Fuji had the good sense to include the filter with the 30mm lens, and strongly recommend it as an option on the 45mm. What continues to irk many of us, I suspect, is that Leica clearly knew of this problem, and chose to withold the fact from those who jumped in at the start and dropped a whopping $4800 per body. When you merge all the facts together--having to send your camera back to Solms, then having to use IR filters, but getting a 30% discount through the factory on one lens--I must say I'm not a happy camper. I was going to sell off all my excellent Canon 1Ds stuff--and was just about to sign up and wait for an M8--now I will probably wait until the IR issue is corrected as it should be--in the camera--not in front of the lens. It is unfortunate, because I was really excited by the M8 and ready to invest a lot of hard to come by $ in a body and a couple of lenses. It will be interesting indeed to see how this shakes out, and I really, really Leica has learned a lesson from this and can somehow survive and prosper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted November 23, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 23, 2006 I am so glad that I did not cancel my M8 order ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 23, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 23, 2006 1) R. Horn is gonna go ballistic, Ralf - did your dealer know you were going to post this on the web? 2) " But the sensor still requires IR filters to do what it should do without them...." You do understand the difference with rangefinder lenses? That an IR filter heavy enough to fully correct IR with Leica's short focus lenses would lead to fuzzy blurry color-fringed corner imaging? I've seen what a Canon 14 or 20 or 17-35 lens does in the corners on a 1Ds or a 5D. Leica specced a filter that allows my 15mm Voigtlander lens to perform about 500% better in the corners while reducing 90-95% of the IR. And it performs THAT task extremely well and exactly as designed. On the M8 I can add another filter to cut the IR further and improve the color rendition - Which filter can sharpen up and remove the purple blurry mush in the corners of 1Ds/5D wide-angle pictures? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbesz Posted November 23, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 23, 2006 It's a very good start, and it could be worth the expense of a holiday to Solms for some. (just my wife to convince ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted November 23, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 23, 2006 I still want to hear this from the horses mouth. I would wonder why a board change (or whatever) couldn't be done at any of the repair centers. I wonder what the turn around will be and how will they handle the shipping costs etc. As I would see it I would have to take the camera back to my dealer (I am in Montreal) he would then probably have to return it to New Jersey. From there it would go to Germany be repaired then back. I would bet that would be 3 to 4 weeks which is just unacceptable. If they can't exchange them they will have to arrange some sort of express turn around. I would find it all acceptable though but now I don't know what to do about the 75 cron that I am supposed to pick up on friday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungnee Posted November 23, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 23, 2006 No mention of the Auto White Balance. Well, if you have to use Auto WB you have no business using the M8, I guess that's what Leica is saying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hestoft Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share #19 Posted November 23, 2006 1) R. Horn is gonna go ballistic, Ralf - did your dealer know you were going to post this on the web? From the email: "I thought it best to just give you the highlights which can be shared with your dealer or consumers." Also, full info will be posted on the Leica web site tomorrow. Ralf-Finn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 23, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 23, 2006 Ralf-Finn: Fair enough - although I think your dealer was supposed to advise you NOT to pass it on quite yet. But if he forgot, he'll have to take that up with Leica directly. Not your fault. Tim Wright: Solms has an expensive "clean room" they installed just for building and servicing the M8. The regional repair centers, AFAIK are just for the mechanical cameras that can be fixed with a screwdriver on a reasonably clean bench (although they may be able to replace a loose control wheel or framing lever or other external fault, or adjust the RF if needed). If my M8 is gonna be "gutted" to put in a new sensor, I'd really prefer they do it in the full "bunny-suit", electrostatic-dust-removed, vaccum-packed, isolated environment it was assembled in. Plus I expect there is a lot of electronic calibration equipment in Solms that the other centers don't have either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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