New H4D Hassy pricing - very aggressive

[wlaidlaw]

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I have just received a sales email with the new H4D 50 and 60 indicative pricing - $19,000 for the 50 kit and $29,000 for the 60 kit (with 80/2.8 lens). That may cause a bit of head scratching at Leica.

 

Wilson

[wattsy]

That may cause a bit of head scratching at Leica.

 

Wilson

 

You'd think so but I suspect Leica have come to see the wealthy enthusiast market as being the key one now for the S2. As the Hasselblad doesn't have a red dot and (horror of horrors) is partly made in Japan, the new prices probably won't have that much of an impact on S2 sales.

 

Incidentally, I'm surprised you haven't got your name down on one by now, Wilson?

[georg]

In Germany the H4D-50 will cost 29000$ and the H4D-60 over 42000$! If it's really worth to spend that money over the S2 (with less MP and less lenses, but faster AF, FPS, smaller more durable metal-body, more sophisticated and faster lenses and more noise) is a matter of personal preferences.

[sdai]

For another time I have to agree with Georg, the target audiences of the H4D and S2 are completely 2 different flocks of people.

[wlaidlaw]

You'd think so but I suspect Leica have come to see the wealthy enthusiast market as being the key one now for the S2. As the Hasselblad doesn't have a red dot and (horror of horrors) is partly made in Japan, the new prices probably won't have that much of an impact on S2 sales.

 

Incidentally, I'm surprised you haven't got your name down on one by now, Wilson?

 

Ian,

 

I once had a loan of an H3D-39 with the zoom lens on it for an afternoon. I handed it back after about half an hour with a very sore back from trying to hold it in front of my face. It really is a tripod camera, which may be the saving grace of the S2. I am not sure why European prices should be so much higher. It would pay to ship an H4D over from the USA if you happened to want one. If I ever decided I wanted more than 18MP (unlikely) then I would buy a little used Contax 645 and 39MP refurbished digital back, which together are not a lot bigger than an S2 and a whole lot cheaper

 

Wilson

[sdai]

I think that you'll immediately fall in love with the S2 when you hold it in your hands, Wilson. It's simply the most beautiful camera that Leica has ever built, at least the ones that I have ever seen.

 

I'm actually now starting to think that it is the future of R although it's still far from mature from many aspects, also the availability of lenses and accessories are extremely limited, or simply non-existent.

 

IMHO Leica has made another wrong pitch in marketing. If they could reposition the S system and aim at the folks moving up from 35mm, slash the price for about 30-40% they may actually already have a winner in hand.

 

For now the game is called M9, and I hope people buy as many as they can.

[rosuna]

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Prices for Europe:

 

- H4D 60, disp January 2010, 28.895 €

 

- H4D 50, disp. January-April 2010, 19.995 €

 

So the H4D 50 is a bit more expensive than the S2 (18.995 €).

[mgcd]

That would make the H4D 50 $4000 less expensive than the S2. That's a significant margin also considering that this includes an 80mm lens. The new Phase One also appears to be significantly less expensive than the S2...

 

British Journal of Photography - Mamiya, Phase One and Schneider collaborate on new camera and lens system

[mhoersch]

By the way, what happend to that summer at the end of which the S2 was supposed to be available?

[wlaidlaw]

I think that you'll immediately fall in love with the S2 when you hold it in your hands, Wilson. It's simply the most beautiful camera that Leica has ever built, at least the ones that I have ever seen.

 

I'm actually now starting to think that it is the future of R although it's still far from mature from many aspects, also the availability of lenses and accessories are extremely limited, or simply non-existent.

 

IMHO Leica has made another wrong pitch in marketing. If they could reposition the S system and aim at the folks moving up from 35mm, slash the price for about 30-40% they may actually already have a winner in hand.

 

For now the game is called M9, and I hope people buy as many as they can.

 

I agree that the S2 is too expensive. I don't know if you saw the thread where I did some calculations on the amortisation of development costs of the S2, based on the figures Leica has given out. If they sell, as they anticipate, 1,000 units per annum, then the development costs add a massive €5,000 per unit to the cost. My personal view is that if they knocked €4,000 per unit off the cost, they would sell in excess of 5,000 units per annum and this would increase their bottom line, let alone the additional profit they would make off lens sales. Maybe they have not run the figures through a financial model and solved for maximum profit.

 

Wilson

[Gentleman Villain]

Hasselblad is still pimping that clunker system? It should be in a museum

[Jay101]

Hasselblad is still pimping that clunker system? It should be in a museum

 

What the?!

[arashm]

I think that you'll immediately fall in love with the S2 when you hold it in your hands, Wilson. It's simply the most beautiful camera that Leica has ever built, at least the ones that I have ever seen

 

Actually holding it in my hand and looking at the disappointing LCD screen on the back was what really turned me off this camera.

am

[rosuna]

I agree that the S2 is too expensive. I don't know if you saw the thread where I did some calculations on the amortisation of development costs of the S2, based on the figures Leica has given out. If they sell, as they anticipate, 1,000 units per annum, then the development costs add a massive €5,000 per unit to the cost. My personal view is that if they knocked €4,000 per unit off the cost, they would sell in excess of 5,000 units per annum and this would increase their bottom line, let alone the additional profit they would make off lens sales. Maybe they have not run the figures through a financial model and solved for maximum profit.

 

Wilson

 

The lenses are expensive, but you don't need all of them. The problem is in the body's price. I also think the system, as a whole, is too expensive, and so thinks the larger professional dealer in Madrid. He is very pessimistic about the S2. It is a wonderful camera, but considering the market current conditions, it needs to be great and cheaper in order to capture the attention of professional photographers. Mamiya is very popular in the USA, and Hasselblad in Europe. The MF market is very, very small, and the economic crisis and the deep transformation of the profession of photographer tell you that only by reducing prices you can preserve that market. It is very difficult, if not impossible for most photographers, to pay off an investment on MF cameras. The price is a key variable here, not the price of you offer compared to the offers of direct competitors, but the price of MF compared to 35mm.

[rosuna]

 

Actually holding it in my hand and looking at the disappointing LCD screen on the back was what really turned me off this camera.

am

 

The S2's screen is 3 inches and 460.000 dots, isn't? It is a huge and high resolution screen, considering MF cameras, and pretty good on paper considering any camera. Am I missing something?

[arashm]

The S2's screen is 3 inches and 460.000 dots, isn't? It is a huge and high resolution screen, considering MF cameras, and pretty good on paper considering any camera. Am I missing something?

 

Hi

yes it is on Paper, but it really didn't look that good in my hand.

I think ( I did not have them side by side ) that even the 1Ds3 screen looks better.

 

I also agree with the above poster, the system is way over priced for a brand new system in the market, at least to a pro shooter.

am

[dfarkas]

Hi

yes it is on Paper, but it really didn't look that good in my hand.

I think ( I did not have them side by side ) that even the 1Ds3 screen looks better.

 

I also agree with the above poster, the system is way over priced for a brand new system in the market, at least to a pro shooter.

am

 

The screen is actually pretty good and certainly better than the 1DsIII. Maybe not as nice as some of the newest 922,000 dot LCDs found on the D3x or D700, but I'd say the S2's LCD is the best in MF by a wide margin. The reality is that the screen resolution on the S2 is the same as the iPhone 3Gs.

 

David

[arminw]

I also have to say it's to expensive considering the current market and the economy . I'm shooting with a H3DII 50 and have a few lenses and a service from Hasselblad that backs me up where ever I go. The S2 is certainly a fine camera but more a rich mans toy then a camera for the Pro who needs a reliable service behind him. I love to be proven wrong , but my experience with all the Leica M8 - M9 models with the delivery date, waiting list, the general cost all that is a big no no when you are shooting pro. And also it's a system that doesn't even have all the lenses yet ... Once it's out one has to wait at least a year to see how it performs .... I certainly will watch closely

[ptomsu]

Leica S2, Hasselblad H4, Phase 645 DF .....

 

I have shot a number of Leicas and held the S2 in my hands - great feeling and very compact ....

 

I have shot the H3D2 and a bunch of lenses and I could not become friend with the handling of that system - maybe it's only me, but ....

 

I used the Phase 645 with several lenses for some days and I really liked it - not so cool like touching the S2 but cool enough to feel ok ....

 

What would I buy? Prices are pretty in the same category for the H4D50, S2, actually the Phase 645 DF with P40+ is much lower I would assume - and given the nice C1Pro, which I still count the best PP SW available (in combination with PS CS4) if it comes to IQ then the decision is pretty clear .....

 

IT IS STILL PHASE

 

Sorry Leica

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