What Exactly Wrong With M8 ????

[yuweimichael]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello guys,

 

I know you guys are talking all over about M8. To me, i think its a perfect camera with new upgrade firware which will be enough. IR ?? I never shoot IR with my digital camera. I don't think what's big deal with. I know a lot of you guys are professonal level photographer but i am not. I just want to enjoy taking picture while i am traveling.

 

I want my picture to be colorful, detail and realistic. Tha't all i want from Leica M8.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[fotografr]

Enjoy it, Michael. A lot of us are just jealous because we don't have ours yet. Whatever problems there are will soon be history.

[sdai]

Nothing is wrong with the M8. As some has already pointed out, the whiners apparently need a CLA for their eyeballs.

[aj37]

I want my picture to be colorful, detail and realistic. Tha't all i want from Leica M8.

 

This must be the Pollyanna thread! To say that a "firmware upgrade" that has not yet been announced, let alone tested, will solve all problems seems naive. To deny that problems exist seems more naive.

 

Pictures in which black objects appear purple or reddish are definitely colorful, but they aren't realistic.

 

Pictures in which overexposed highlights are surrounded by distinct horizontal streaks may be detailed, but they also aren't realistic.

 

Saying you're not interested in IR overlooks the problem. The problem is that you're doing "IR photography" whether you want to or not!

 

These are well-documented issues which Leica has acknowledged (formally or informally) and which have been demonstrated by examples posted on this forum.

 

It's true that these issues won't affect people who use their M8s primarily to photograph in black-and-white, or who photograph subjects that are unlikely to contain bright objects that would lead to extreme overexposure. But that's a narrow slice of users. I would guess that casual or recreational M8 users, who just want to take pictures without worrying about technical restrictions, are more likely than professional users to venture into territory that might invoke the problems!

 

This isn't to say that the M8's problems can't be fixed or won't be fixed. But to say that there are NO problems, or that they don't matter, seems self-deceptive, and seems to negate the careful work that has been done by members of this forum to identify and document the issues that need to be addressed.

[jaapv]

This must be the Pollyanna thread! To say that a "firmware upgrade" that has not yet been announced, let alone tested, will solve all problems seems naive. To deny that problems exist seems more naive.

 

Pictures in which black objects appear purple or reddish are definitely colorful, but they aren't realistic.

 

Pictures in which overexposed highlights are surrounded by distinct horizontal streaks may be detailed, but they also aren't realistic.

 

Saying you're not interested in IR overlooks the problem. The problem is that you're doing "IR photography" whether you want to or not!

 

These are well-documented issues which Leica has acknowledged (formally or informally) and which have been demonstrated by examples posted on this forum.

 

It's true that these issues won't affect people who use their M8s primarily to photograph in black-and-white, or who photograph subjects that are unlikely to contain bright objects that would lead to extreme overexposure. But that's a narrow slice of users. I would guess that casual or recreational M8 users, who just want to take pictures without worrying about technical restrictions, are more likely than professional users to venture into territory that might invoke the problems!

 

This isn't to say that the M8's problems can't be fixed or won't be fixed. But to say that there are NO problems, or that they don't matter, seems self-deceptive, and seems to negate the careful work that has been done by members of this forum to identify and document the issues that need to be addressed.

 

As everybody knows I *really* appreciate the work done by the experts and personally I benefit greatly from it. But.. the question raised is a fair one, as for a large number of photographs, especially with the new profiles, these problems are of no influence, as a large number of images flooding the internet prove. Which means that for a considerable number of applications the camera is perfectly adequate and a wonderful tool. I think it is legitimate to enjoy that part and it does in no way express a negation of all the good work here and elsewhere to do so.

[Jamie Roberts]

As everybody knows I *really* appreciate the work done by the experts and personally I benefit greatly from it. But.. the question raised is a fair one, as for a large number of photographs, especially with the new profiles, these problems are of no influence, as a large number of images flooding the internet prove. Which means that for a considerable number of applications the camera is perfectly adequate and a wonderful tool. I think it is legitimate to enjoy that part and it does in no way express a negation of all the good work here and elsewhere to do so.

 

1) The streaking and blobbing must be fixed. Without it, the M8 doesn't deliver the promise of an excellent available light camera.

 

2) The IR response is simply messing up the color response. Would a solution affect sharpness? I don't know, the but do think the current situation is not acceptible

 

That's what's wrong with the M8, simply put.

 

It's a camera with tremendous potential, and I love mine.

 

But it doesn't perform in these areas as well as a Canon 5d, which, for amateurs and pros alike, means it doesn't live up to its potential.

 

Yes, it's the best digital rangefinder out there. But that's a context of 1 not very widely used camera.

 

If you never run into black synthetic or green synthetics or magenta synthetics, the camera is fine. If you never run into overexposed bright lights or windows (yes, windows) then the camera is fine.

 

To me, that's crazy. I want to see these issues fixed authoritatively because I love the M8 so much, and I've put a lot of work into workarounds.

 

But it's best to look at plusses and minuses in the cold hard light of what it does do well, what it doesn't do well, and what it could do!

[yuweimichael]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello,

Thanks for all the response. So, since some of you guys already have the M8, what kind of "fix" can Leica do for us ? That's another question.

[marknorton]

1) The streaking and blobbing must be fixed. Without it, the M8 doesn't deliver the promise of an excellent available light camera.

 

2) The IR response is simply messing up the color response. Would a solution affect sharpness? I don't know, the but do think the current situation is not acceptible

 

That's what's wrong with the M8, simply put.

 

It's a camera with tremendous potential, and I love mine.

 

But it doesn't perform in these areas as well as a Canon 5d, which, for amateurs and pros alike, means it doesn't live up to its potential.

 

Yes, it's the best digital rangefinder out there. But that's a context of 1 not very widely used camera.

 

If you never run into black synthetic or green synthetics or magenta synthetics, the camera is fine. If you never run into overexposed bright lights or windows (yes, windows) then the camera is fine.

 

To me, that's crazy. I want to see these issues fixed authoritatively because I love the M8 so much, and I've put a lot of work into workarounds.

 

But it's best to look at plusses and minuses in the cold hard light of what it does do well, what it doesn't do well, and what it could do!

 

Great summary of the issues, Jamie.

[rvaubel]

Hello,

Thanks for all the response. So, since some of you guys already have the M8, what kind of "fix" can Leica do for us ? That's another question.

 

Leica should bit the bullet and promise to fix the IR sensitivey problem at the most fundamental level, that is, at the sensor level. This is not an easy solution nor an inexpensive one but the only one that will result in a truly satisfactory product that will highlight the advantages of the digital rangefinder camera. It is true that developing a sensor IR filter that does the job without significent cyan "vignetting" or reduced edge quality is difficult but can be done better than Leica's initial attempt. A more complex composite absorbtive/thin film solution my be required to solve the short back focus requirements of the rangefinder format. But its not impossible. My fear is that they won't even try, relying on the committed Leica community to accept an add-on external filter kledge. And, unfortunately, I'm one that will accept the external filter solution because I don't think Leica has the resources or commitment to do it right.

 

Oh,well its better than nothing. And I still have my RD1 when I don;t want to go out with a blazing red searchlight on the front of my camera.

 

Rex

[Guest stnami]

x

[rosuna]

What Exactly Wrong With M8 ?

 

1) White Balance does not work. Erratic and erroneous. I am not worried because a software fix will improve this soon (I hope).

 

2) IR thing. It will requiere an external filter. I accept it, if the results are good. I want the best image quality now. I cannot wait 2 or 3 years for more sophisticated filters and sensors.

 

3) SD-HC cards support. I hope this needs a software fix. Toshiba has just presented SD-HC cards of 4GB and 8GB of capacity. I was forced to buy a SanDisk card of 2GB.

 

4) Banding. It occurs often. I hope and wish a software update will correct it.

 

That's all. There are other minor things that can be improved by software. The only hardware thing that I would fix is the power switch, which is too easy to move accidentally.

[tom0511]

The main thing which is wrong with mine is that I do not yet have it

 

I am not happy with the Banding, AWB and IR issues, but:

1) I think I can live with filters if the overall IQ is as good as it looks and if proper profiles are provided

2) AWB: I can live with bad AWB, not that a big thing for me to set WB in raw conversion

3) banding: dont know yet how often it occurs, but I dont expect it to be such a big problem , that I wouldnt want the camera

[rosuna]

I want to see these issues fixed authoritatively because *I love the M8 so much*, and I've put a lot of work into workarounds.

 

But it's best to look at plusses and minuses in the cold hard light of what it does do well, what it doesn't do well, and what it could do!

 

 

I agree !!!

 

 

I would suggest Leica to provide a black and white profile for Capture One. The camera does internal B&W conversion for JPG pictures, but that recipe cannot be applied externally, during RAW conversion.