jaapv Posted September 8, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) From tomorrow we can expect those in this forum.. Let's get our heads together and think up a few strategies. Here is my 2 cents: -Don't counterbash or countertroll. If one must answer, keep it factual. To "Leica is ridiculously expensive jewelry" there is but one answer: "If you can't afford it, don't look at it." -To "Leica is inept/past it/unreliable"etc... just reply: "Not borne out by reality". -Don't indulge in fights with other regular members. Better shelve those for Christmas time. Trolls love to exploit disagreements between legitimate posters. -If you have a negative post about the M9, again, keep it factual and save the emotions for later. -Don't join the chorus of negativism. -Sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Trolls, bashers and idiots. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Venkman Posted September 8, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 8, 2009 We should have had that list 6 weeks ago, it's too late now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted September 8, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 8, 2009 simples... direct them to 'compare-the-lurker' instead of 'compare-the-leica' (for those of you in the UK). or just shut off registration for a few days, that way we only have to deal with the recidivists Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted September 8, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 8, 2009 Follow my mother's (and probably your mother's) wise advice: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted September 8, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 8, 2009 I will not say it is a bad camera if I do not plan buying it. I will wait for real life testers to give an honest opinion. I would limit myself to ask constructive questions and expect only real M9 users to answer them. I promise I promise I promise... I will not say it is a bad camera if I do not plan buying it. I will wait for real life testers to give an honest opinion. I would limit myself to ask constructive questions and expect only real M9 users to answer them. I promise I promise I promise... I will not say it is a bad camera if I do not plan buying it. I will wait for real life testers to give an honest opinion. I would limit myself to ask constructive questions and expect only real M9 users to answer them. I promise I promise I promise... I will not say it is a bad camera if I do not plan buying it. I will wait for real life testers to give an honest opinion. I would limit myself to ask constructive questions and expect only real M9 users to answer them. I promise I promise I promise... I will not say it is a bad camera if I do not plan buying it. I will wait for real life testers to give an honest opinion. I would limit myself to ask constructive questions and expect only real M9 users to answer them. I promise I promise I promise... ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 8, 2009 Share #6 Posted September 8, 2009 All this seems a bit defensive to me. For those that are lucky (or unlucky - we'll see) enough to own the camera from day one: enjoy yourselves, let us know how you get on and don't worry about preparing smart one-liners to deal with the critics. The camera should stand or fall on its own merits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted September 8, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Follow my mother's (and probably your mother's) wise advice: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." John Yep - and: ïf you don't know keep your mouth shut even if you look like a fool instead of opening it and removing all doubt.. I should take that advice from time to time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Villain Posted September 8, 2009 Share #8 Posted September 8, 2009 I like Jaapv's pre-emptive strike on the inevitable future 9/9 arguments ...You get an A for effort Just for fun and maybe it'll help some people decipher the internet forum environment....But from my observations, the number one reason for arguments on the internet is mis-communication between right-brained and left-brained individuals. From my observations, and also polls that I've taken in other forums...the vast majority of working commercial artists are right brained, while the vast majority of serious amateurs and hobbyists are left brained. This makes pretty good sense when it comes to high end photo gear because the only people that can afford it will either be professionals in the industry or very smart detail oriented individuals from other technical industries (like engineering or medicine) that have the disposable income available to purchase high end gear for a hobby. right-brainers (most working artists) generally think and talk in terms of feels and vibes and they often judge gear in relation to how it is used with in the context of their own personal work. This is exactly how they communicate with art directors, stylists, talent etc. But this type of communication doesn't work at all in a forum environment that is mostly dominated by hobbyists and amateur gearhead that tend to be left brainers (engineers etc) left brainers are more detail oriented and will focus on pieces of information. So they will analyze a piece of a post rather than the entire post within context. Inevitably, the left brainers say the right brainers are idiots that get their facts wrong...and the right brainers say the left brainers are condescending jerks that miss "the big picture" The vast majority of the disagreements that I've had with folks online have nothing to do with their information or opinion...it almost always comes down to the way that they relate it. Half of the time, people that argue with me will lecture me on things that I actually agree with them about...It's just that they're too left brained to understand my right brained way of communicating a similar idea. Just a disclaimer: I'm not saying that one way is better than another. It takes all kinds. If we had a better understanding of ourselves sometimes them maybe that will helps us to understand others more. BTW - forums will probably always be dominated by left brainer types....because the medium of an internet forum is structured in a way that is more conducive to detail oriented technical discussions. So if anybody ever wonders why they don't run across more posts from famous fashion photographers and so on...that might be part of the reason why. Just one man's opinion and other's are certainly free to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 8, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 8, 2009 How very sensible Jaap but on the other hand we could have some fun too. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard.no Posted September 8, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 8, 2009 Jaapv and all others, don't get scared by the title of my reply. I agree with you that the best way to counter trolling and unreasoned bashing is by silence. There will be bashing. And there will be trolling. And mostly unreasoned for, or at least, if reasoned for, it will be based on assumptions and not real experience. There will also be lots of defensive comments, replies and posts, claiming the M9 to be perfect, the last M they will ever need, and even if there could be some signs of weaknesses, none of this will be admitted. Fanboyism. Narrow mindedness (if there is such a word - pardon; English is not my native language). I feel that all to often, not only in relation to cameras or this forum, but in general, the voice of the nay-sayer is always being looked down upon, even if it is well reasoned for - maybe because the nay-sayer is outnumbered by the yes-men (and women). Naturally, since this forum has quite a lot of Leica fans (a good thing; good products, good philosophy), even a well-reasoned nay-sayer will most likely be met with a flame war. So while condemning the trolling and unreasoned bashing, I beg to differ between this and those that actually raise fair questions with regards to specifications, handling or performance. I could very well be that this post is not far from, or contradicting, your opinion on this matter, but I felt that I needed to point this out, just to make sure we keep this a place for varied discussion; a true knowledge base (without claiming to contribute to this), with a first, second and third opinion - without the risk of uncivil attacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted September 8, 2009 I don't advocate putting down genuine critical posts - far from it.And I do not think that happens very often on this forum. But that has nothing to do with the categories I mentioned. That is the reason factual answers are fine imo - just in case a legitimate newcomer has hit the wrong tone by mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted September 8, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 8, 2009 I don't understand what you say, could you say it again but type slower this time Just for fun and maybe it'll help some people decipher the internet forum environment....But from my observations, the number one reason for arguments on the internet is mis-communication between right-brained and left-brained individuals. From my observations, and also polls that I've taken in other forums...the vast majority of working commercial artists are right brained, while the vast majority of serious amateurs and hobbyists are left brained. This makes pretty good sense when it comes to high end photo gear because the only people that can afford it will either be professionals in the industry or very smart detail oriented individuals from other technical industries (like engineering or medicine) that have the disposable income available to purchase high end gear for a hobby. right-brainers (most working artists) generally think and talk in terms of feels and vibes and they often judge gear in relation to how it is used with in the context of their own personal work. This is exactly how they communicate with art directors, stylists, talent etc. But this type of communication doesn't work at all in a forum environment that is mostly dominated by hobbyists and amateur gearhead that tend to be left brainers (engineers etc) left brainers are more detail oriented and will focus on pieces of information. So they will analyze a piece of a post rather than the entire post within context. Inevitably, the left brainers say the right brainers are idiots that get their facts wrong...and the right brainers say the left brainers are condescending jerks that miss "the big picture" The vast majority of the disagreements that I've had with folks online have nothing to do with their information or opinion...it almost always comes down to the way that they relate it. Half of the time, people that argue with me will lecture me on things that I actually agree with them about...It's just that they're too left brained to understand my right brained way of communicating a similar idea. Just a disclaimer: I'm not saying that one way is better than another. It takes all kinds. If we had a better understanding of ourselves sometimes them maybe that will helps us to understand others more. BTW - forums will probably always be dominated by left brainer types....because the medium of an internet forum is structured in a way that is more conducive to detail oriented technical discussions. So if anybody ever wonders why they don't run across more posts from famous fashion photographers and so on...that might be part of the reason why. Just one man's opinion and other's are certainly free to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Cristophe Posted September 8, 2009 Share #13 Posted September 8, 2009 It won't be the leica gear people will be critical about. It will have more to do with the attitude of some of the M8 forum members and posts like this one, especially the title won't work wonders. I'm an M8 guy but I only lurk the forum now and then and it seems that everyone and anyone with an opinion outside of the "main center" members of the M8 forum is considered a Troll, Basher or Idiot although you claim this is not the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted September 8, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 8, 2009 Why not just ask them "And how big is your Danda?" (Goodness Gracious Me - for those that have forgotten that BBC show) Actually, I plan on just ignoring them and they will get bored and go away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted September 8, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 8, 2009 Oh, come off it, most people have been fairly objective and honest! We all know the M8 is cr@p but merely suspect the M9 will be rubbish.... besides, we all know the M9 debate is irrelevant, because if you were serious about your art you'd be using film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 8, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 8, 2009 Just for fun and maybe it'll help some people decipher the internet forum environment....But from my observations, the number one reason for arguments on the internet is mis-communication between right-brained and left-brained individuals. I usually come out middle-brained on the tests. That way no one understands me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 8, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 8, 2009 From a site on numerology... As the final numeral, the number nine holds special rank. It is associated with forgiveness, compassion and success on the positive side as well as arrogance and self-righteousness on the negative, according to numerologists. Guess we can anticipate the normal banter here. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted September 8, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 8, 2009 I'd love a rule that said "no criticism without a picture". At least then I'd have something pretty to pull my eye away from the inevitable flaming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 8, 2009 Share #19 Posted September 8, 2009 Sorry but a thread like this just gave them all a reason to be here. Bottom line is simple this they want attention. You just gave it to them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted September 8, 2009 Share #20 Posted September 8, 2009 I agree ... ignoring them is the best policy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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