X1 discussion thread (merged)

[Hektor6644]

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Hi JMP:

 

I agree with you. I do not care about AF - I prefer MF, anyway. The 35mm is my favorite focal length, in the first place. I do have the D-Lux 4, which I do not consider a true Leica, but it is clipped to my belt, all the time. However, I do have the D700 + the Zeiss Distagon ZF 35 f/2. To get a fourth camera system? However, I'm dying for an affordable true Leica and not a baby one. Have no doubt, if I had the money, I would get the M9 and three to four lenses.

 

Best regards,

 

Ramesses

[Hektor6644]

Why a fixed f2.8 lens when the GF-1 gives a choice of a compact F1.7 prime lens, zooms and many other lenses? (Including making M 35 and 50 1.4 and f2 lenses into nice fast portrait lenses.)

 

I think an "X2" with a fixed and dust-proof 24-70 equivalent (and zoom optical viewfinder) is the camera that lots of photo journalists (and others) would like. Surely such a model would impact M sales but they'd also sell a lot of them. As it stands, the GF-1 is likely to be the leader in this segment until something better comes along.

 

Hi:

 

I agree with everything you say, except the sensor size. The X1 has a APS-C sensor ant the GF1 comes with a M4/3 sensor. This is a huge difference that cannot be overlooked. I agree about the f/2.8. However, the 35mm focal length is my favorite and I prefer it to the 24-70 zoom. If the X1 comes with a OVF, I do not want the headaches of what a 24-70 would represent.

 

Best regards,

 

Ramesses

[John Thawley]

Here's a bold prediction. (not really)...

 

Not everyone will love this camera... except those that own it. If you don't get it, don't buy it. Those that get it will be taking photos that others will be marveling at for digital generations to come.

 

As I said earlier (view finder disappointment aside)... this is going to be a camera that those who "get it" will develop a love affair that will produce images others will only dream off. I'm quite confident Leica heard and read between the lines and have got it right. Made in Germany. Made for Photographers. Made for Leica users.

 

I feel they've invested this money with a long term view of the future.

 

I could be wrong.. but I really don't think so.

 

JT

[J Mitchum]

Why a fixed f2.8 lens when the GF-1 gives a choice of a compact F1.7 prime lens, zooms and many other lenses? (Including making M 35 and 50 1.4 and f2 lenses into nice fast portrait lenses.)

 

If it had interchangeable lenses it would be considered a dSLR and Leica does not want to compete in that area. Remember, they killed off the R10 for the same reason. Maybe they didn't want to create and support yet another line of lenses and/or they felt it would take too many sales from the M9.

[J Mitchum]

Let's not forget the specs that accompanied the original leaked photo:

 

12mp APS-C CMOS sensor

Leica Elmarit 24mm f/2.8 ASPH lens (equivalent to 35mm)

Manual exposure operations (shutter dial/aperture dial)

Autofocus

Built-in flash (this is the circle cover on top right)

Bundled with Adobe Lightroom

Made in Germany

 

If these are accurate it would indicate a 1.5x crop.

[hexar]

what could be the technical development leica went trhough that now the possibility of a full frame sensor is within reach and not before ? The flange distance has not changed and this was the bottleneck wasn`t it. As far as I can imagine things have not changed, so........?

[Hektor6644]

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what could be the technical development leica went trhough that now the possibility of a full frame sensor is within reach and not before ? The flange distance has not changed and this was the bottleneck wasn`t it. As far as I can imagine things have not changed, so........?

 

Hi:

 

This is the way I see it. The FF sensor is coming out with the M9 and the M-mount lenses. If the rumors about the X1 are true, what Leica is doing is very interesting and smart, imho. I do not think that Leica will continue production of the M8.2. Instead, I think that they are prolonging the product life cycle of the M8 sensor with the X1.

 

The smart thing is that they are introducing the Leica image quality to a new set of people that would not purchase a full-blown Leica system. Once these new adopters get bitten by the Leica bug, many of them will migrate to an M9.

 

It seems to me that Leica is going back to its roots - the RF cameras. Maybe, the EVF is just around the corner, which would mean probably a better alternative to the DSRL's.

 

I cannot wait until September 9th to get the true story. I will take it from there.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ramesses

[adan]

Instead, I think that they are prolonging the product life cycle of the M8 sensor with the X1.

 

How does a 1.5x crop CMOS sensor prolong the product life cycle of a 1.33x CCD sensor?

[Hektor6644]

How does a 1.5x crop CMOS sensor prolong the product life cycle of a 1.33x CCD sensor?

 

Sorry, but I'm not that familiar with the M8. I thought it was a 1.5 crop CMOS sensor. Never mind then. The story gets more interesting, then.

 

Thanks for the clarification,

 

Ramesses

[krabat]

I am sorry, I don't wanna spoil your praise of the X1, but for me it is a disappointment, if the leaked specs are true. Why a fixed lens with a fixed focal length? And no obvious viewfinder. So, I will continue with my Digilux 2 with its nice 2.0-2.4/28-90 mm lens, although the rest of it has grown old in the meantime.

[sean_reid]

You still need feedback from the autofocus when it's on. Sound? Uncertain and annoying in some situations.

 

What Sigma and Ricoh do for use with accessory optical finders is to place the AF confirmation light where one can see it (in his or her peripheral vision) while his or her eye is at the AOVF.

 

Edit: Looks like two people already mentioned this.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[nhabedi]

I am sorry, I don't wanna spoil your praise of the X1, but for me it is a disappointment, if the leaked specs are true.

 

No camera maker will ever build a camera that everybody loves and wants. Such is life...

 

Why a fixed lens with a fixed focal length?

 

There are good reasons for that some of which can be found further up in this thread.

 

I will continue with my Digilux 2 with its nice 2.0-2.4/28-90 mm lens, although the rest of it has grown old in the meantime.

 

In the price and size range we're talking about, you either have a big sensor with a (presumably) pretty good prime lens or you have a 2.0-2.4/28-90 zoom with a tiny sensor, but not both. Apples and oranges.

 

I think your point is: "I wanted an up-to-date Digilux 2 and I didn't get it, now I'm disappointed." I can understand that, but that doesn't make the X1 better or worse.

[krabat]

I think your point is: "I wanted an up-to-date Digilux 2 and I didn't get it, now I'm disappointed." I can understand that, but that doesn't make the X1 better or worse.

You are completely alright.

The purpose of my posting was exactly to express my wish for an up-dated Digilux 2, and I did not want to judge about the X1.

[felipe-m]

No camera maker will ever build a camera that everybody loves and wants. Such is life...

 

true, but with interchangeable lenses it may appeal to many more... and without cannibalizing Ms much I think.

 

It seems all of the remainning Ms are FF 35mm. So those who'd have a 1.5 crop factor camera as their main or only camera would mostly be a different group of users than tradittional M or pro users (enthusiasts, beginners, curious...). If anything, it would be a backup option or "fun" camera for the M and traditional Leica crew.

The apparent CMOS sensor is also another significant difference to the M's CCD, not to mention the rangefinder...

 

If, on the other hand, it could also take M lenses, direclty, or via adaptor, it could drive M glass sales higher (ok, maybe not noctis, but the summarits, elmarits, and maybe some crons and luxes) and be the perfect bait to lure new people to it's bigger brother.

 

The CL was "full frame", and had a rangefinder, so it was for sure internal competition for the Ms. Not so an interchangeable-lense X1 (or hopefully at the latest an X2 ) . Rather, IMHO, it would be the perfect lure into Leica glass and into the M.

Or have I had too much Bordeaux already??

[AlanG]

If it had interchangeable lenses it would be considered a dSLR and Leica does not want to compete in that area. Remember, they killed off the R10 for the same reason. Maybe they didn't want to create and support yet another line of lenses and/or they felt it would take too many sales from the M9.

 

I suggested a 24-70 fixed lens, not interchangeable lenses, along with an optical zoom viewfinder for this focal length range. A clip on EVF may be an acceptable alternative. Now that so many cameras have live view and EVFs, the term "DSLR" may be losing its significance. A camera without any ability to actually see through the lens (M8 and M9) are the rarities.

 

As for taking sales from the M9... long ago the only camera with the name "Nikon" was the Nikon F. They had Nikkorex models (I think made by Mamiya.) Then the Nikkormats, but nothing else bearing the Nikon name. But if they were afraid to impact sales of the Nikon F, that all changed in subsequent years when Nikon introduced lower priced models from p&s cameras up to consumer and semi-pro SLRs. It didn't seem to hurt sales of the pro models. It probably gave them the resources to keep their top of the line cameras and lenses cutting edge. Many other companies also have a range of models.

[AlanG]

Here's a bold prediction. (not really)...

 

Not everyone will love this camera... except those that own it. If you don't get it, don't buy it. Those that get it will be taking photos that others will be marveling at for digital generations to come.

 

JT

 

Why is that? Is this a magic camera?

[andybarton]

I suggested a 24-70 fixed lens, not interchangeable lenses.

 

Suggested? To whom? Leica? You knew about the X1?

 

And they didn't listen to you?

 

Did you suggest Live View too?

[Guest stnami]

..it may be just the ticket as a great companion to my ricoh GR1 film camera as long as it isn't 4:3

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[AlanG]

Suggested? To whom? Leica? You knew about the X1?

 

And they didn't listen to you?

 

Did you suggest Live View too?

 

I suggested in today's post that I think it would be a good idea. And I have been "suggesting" exactly such a camera for years. I don't have a clue if anyone is paying attention. I've also been "suggesting" live view for the M for some time. It will happen... just like they eventually came out with a model that had a film rewind crank. (Long after everyone else had it.)

 

As for the X1. I must have missed all of the posting the past few years from people clamoring for a fixed f2.8 35mm lens equivalent APS format camera. Once there was a Nikkorex Auto 35 that had a fixed 50mm lens. Then they came out with a Nikkorex Zoom model that had a permanently mounted 43-86 zoom. This was probably the first "bridge camera." I wouldn't be surprised to see an X1 type zoom model someday. Zooms sell.

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[andybarton]

AlanG

 

you must have ignored all the threads asking for a digital CM then. The X1 is almost it.