wildlightphoto Posted September 30, 2009 Share #101 Posted September 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The R9 mirrorbox is not enough. You have to couple the lenses aperture to the body and the light measurements. That's the main problem. That's trivial. R9 body casting & mirror box, M9 sensor, S2 control logic. What am I missing? Why can't this be done? Part of the S2 control logic isn't needed, such as the central shutter controls, otherwise everything an R10 needs is there. The aperture control is the only tricky thing, but a small module in the R10 body could translate the S2 electronic aperture control to the mechanical actions the R lenses need. Likewise the R lens meter coupling can translate the mechanical coupling to the electronic signals the S2 control module uses. It's not rocket science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Hi wildlightphoto, Take a look here The Digital Solution for R mount lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rick_dykstra Posted September 30, 2009 Share #102 Posted September 30, 2009 I don't think scaling an S2 down will work - there'd be no mechanical stop down. Leica have said they don't want to swim in the 35mm auto-focus shark pool. Fair enough. It's understandably better for them to concentrate on M and S now. But, a simple R10 in the shape of an R9 with a full frame fixed sensor - that's not hard to do. Would it be economically feasible if lens sales are not part of the equation? They'd certainly make a lot of the faithful happy - me included. An electronic viewfinder or live view would not work for nature photographers. We need a focussing aid that works at the speed of light, with eyes focussed at infinity, while holding the lens' focussing ring, while still able to see around the camera to check what the subject is up to. Landscapes or group/travel shots could be managed with an M10 live view - though of course not an ideal approach. Heck, if I'm thinking of using my 50 R lens on an M10, I'd be better off using a 50 M lens! Stephan - give us an R9 with a big sensor screwed in the back and we'll stop whinging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 30, 2009 Share #103 Posted September 30, 2009 I don't think scaling an S2 down will work - there'd be no mechanical stop down. Sure there is, it's in the S lenses. Simple matter to move the control circuits and mechanism to the body. The R8 and R9 already do this in T and P modes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted September 30, 2009 Share #104 Posted September 30, 2009 True Doug, but that's more design work and expense, when an R9 souped up with a big sensor would seem to satisfy many/most in the R crowd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted September 30, 2009 Share #105 Posted September 30, 2009 Make it an SL10 then. Fullframe sensor, manual everything, except a build in lightmeter. Spend the money on metal build, bright viewfinder, loads of buffer-power and nice leather. We will buy and it will last 10 years or more if the MP is 21 and fps is 5 or higher. Forget the AF, full auto (which require the camera to control the aperture) and all fancy features. Go back to basics. Or ... build the damn DMR Mark II with Kodak. 4-6 fps, Or ... who can upgrade existing DMRs buffer speed, ability to take SDHC cards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyp Posted September 30, 2009 Share #106 Posted September 30, 2009 Make it an SL10 then. Fullframe sensor, manual everything, except a build in lightmeter. Spend the money on metal build, bright viewfinder, loads of buffer-power and nice leather. We will buy and it will last 10 years or more if the MP is 21 and fps is 5 or higher. Forget the AF, full auto (which require the camera to control the aperture) and all fancy features. Go back to basics. Or ... build the damn DMR Mark II with Kodak. 4-6 fps, Or ... who can upgrade existing DMRs buffer speed, ability to take SDHC cards. Exactly: SL10 or SL-D....oh baby ! I may actually give up film for something like this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted September 30, 2009 Share #107 Posted September 30, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree. I've thought that with today's CNC machines, rapid and precise manufacture can be used to ease or replace cast body pieces. It's not that complicated - or it doesn't have to be. The rest of the technology can be easily had for digital and the general shape of the SL2 was near perfect. I don't need an auto-focus body; especially if it means an easier solution could be had. There are plenty of R lenses out here that can be used. Why not do it? Leica has shown that it's do-:rolleyes:able in the M9, and that body size is much smaller than the SL series, or, as has been mentioned, use the R9. I say do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted September 30, 2009 Share #108 Posted September 30, 2009 Make it an SL10 then. Fullframe sensor, manual everything, except a build in lightmeter. That is a M9 camera with mirror box. How many people would pay 5.500 euros for it? Current owners of R lenses? Not many. A simpler solution is a M camera with live view, accesory electronic viewfinder on the flash shoe and R-to-M mount adapter. The only thing you cannot preserve is automatic aperture control (amybe you can do it with ROM lenses). The problem with a reflex camera, any 35mm reflex camera, is that it will have sales only for a few months, only to current R owners. That's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted October 1, 2009 Share #109 Posted October 1, 2009 Exactly: SL10 or SL-D....oh baby ! I may actually give up film for something like this It's ideas like this that make me clean drool off the keyboard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 1, 2009 Share #110 Posted October 1, 2009 The problem with a reflex camera, any 35mm reflex camera, is that it will have sales only for a few months, only to current R owners. That's all. I haven't been an R owner for 15 years, but I'd buy a simple Leica 35mm reflex digital camera if it had a Leica tilt-shift lens option. I'd get that lens, and a quality tele (or zoom) to address situations my M cannot. The S2 is too expensive for this purpose, but a smaller, cheaper alternative would be great. But, in the absence of such a camera, I'll probably get a Canikon at some point. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted October 1, 2009 Share #111 Posted October 1, 2009 A souped up R9 would be so easy for Leica to do. An SL-D a bit harder I think. An R9-D would have all the R9 modes plus clever flash metering and would work with R8/9 accesories. This is the way to go. No auto focus, no new lenses. Pure and simple joy for the many R system users. But would such a move cut into S system sales? I've had a good close look at the S as a solution to the lack of an R9-D and it's not the answer for me. Others? I'm not a high fashion pro and can't write the purchase off against tax. And it doesn't have the long lenses I want. To me, the R and S are in distinctly different territories. Leica are asking the market to see the S as distinct from 35mm SLRs. Indeed it is, so there's no reason to not produce an R9-D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgmb Posted October 1, 2009 Share #112 Posted October 1, 2009 A simpler solution is a M camera with live view, accesory electronic viewfinder on the flash shoe and R-to-M mount adapter. I think this is a great solution and would not require the massive R&D investment from Leica that building an R10 SLR camera from scratch would require. Just replace the M9 LCD with a high-res 900k dot Live View display, offer an OLED EVF and I could live without the auto-aperture. I'd love to be able to use my R glass on the M9 body and sensor. Maybe they could add a focus confirmation LED like the X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndr Posted October 1, 2009 Share #113 Posted October 1, 2009 Hello, please phase one, can't you cut the mirror and build up a R-Lense compatible bajonet incl. aperture control into this camera: Phase One - Phase One 645DF camera The adequate FF digital back with high quality can be found easily! But as i wrote in the german section this is just a dream. Kind regards, Bernd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted October 1, 2009 Share #114 Posted October 1, 2009 I keep thinking that the non-DSLR solution Leica says it's working on will be along the lines of a pumped up GF1. They are in a unique position to create/design a body that could use R and M lenses (if they wanted to) but as has been mentioned before, the mechanics - electronics for the R auto-aperture would have been designed in. That has to be weighing on the design team. Yes it could be manual which would greatly simplify things. A new DMR would mean that R8/9's would be at a premium - great for those that have them. I'm just thinking from a design perspective if it's not a DSLR - will you come out with a new lens line which could be AF - and then, the EVF would have to be outstanding to attract any who have the R glass. I'd love to be in the shoes of the design team as they figure this out. It could be extremely basic or be a whole new platform for the future that would show innovation and pull more into the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted October 5, 2009 Share #115 Posted October 5, 2009 Compete with Zeiss offering premium lenses with Nikon and Canon mounts. I am sure Leica would make a huge business just selling the best lenses money can buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 5, 2009 Share #116 Posted October 5, 2009 What works for Leica is simplicity. Capture lightrays, set the shutter time. No need for more, and the success of the M9 proves that there is an audience of photographers wanting to get a solid piece of gear without all the stuff invented to make photography easier. SL10 as it is, put a sensor in it, charge extra for those who want a LCD screen on the back. Keep the shutter sound (sexiest beast in the world at 1/60!). Rip off the lightmeter of the R9 (which works great). Make a white edition as well if you must. Yes, it's 5,500 Euro/7,000$ worth. Easier to introduce than the S2 because the target group already know the camera and have the glass to put onto it. Some might say, why not the (highly succesful) R6.2 recycled as digital? Because that was the equipment of the 80ies. If Pentax was to re-issue a camera it's the 4x5 with the wooden handle. For Leica it's the SL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted October 6, 2009 Share #117 Posted October 6, 2009 +7 Full Frame please. + 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted October 7, 2009 Share #118 Posted October 7, 2009 + 8 +9 What are we plussing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flx.bastin Posted October 7, 2009 Share #119 Posted October 7, 2009 + 10 Full Frame please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdb Posted October 7, 2009 Share #120 Posted October 7, 2009 + 11 Gérard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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