stevelap Posted September 2, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Apple is holing a media event also on 9/9/9, so maybe there's a Leica-iPod on the way Now... seriously... anywhere a thought about RED-Leica collaborating in the future? e Yes, I discussed it briefly a while ago in another thread. RED seems a little dead. Can't figure it out but I sense Canon and others are working on capturing that market. At least I haven't seen or heard anything about RED for a long time, and I seem to remember their dSLR should have been ready for launch about now. The last word on DSMC from RED in August, after they'd shown an early prototype Scarlet at a show somewhere, was to expect an update 'in a couple of months', so maybe October? No-one seems to be expecting availability before next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Hi stevelap, Take a look here 9 products for the 9/9/9 event?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted September 2, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 2, 2009 Most of the people here who are literate already realise that the S2 and lenses are accounted for so what are your nine other than your fingers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted September 2, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 2, 2009 No, they already stated it will ship with Adobe Lightroom 2. In my opinion, the game is long over for small players making RAW and workflow software. It's the game for big players like Apple and Adobe. Look how difficult it is for Hasselblad Phocus and Capture One following with software that can both convert RAW and manage workflow of storage, keywords, output, slideshows, websites, etc. Leica should concentrate on helping artists handling light (glass and simple no nonsense operating cameras) Yeah, you're probably right but sometimes camera companies just want to prove they can get the best out of their cameras with their software. For example Nikon with their horrible product. I hope Leica sticks with making cameras and lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 2, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 2, 2009 I have no idea. My worst fear is some cropped solution like they promoted the Digilux 3 as a great way to 2x the 200mm/2 to a 400mm/2 lens. I fear they will provide such a half solution of some kind, eventual via an adapter. But the only real solution is an R camera built from the R9 or a Baby S2 made for R glasses. Or a surprising release of Nikon AF lenses made by Leica so one can move to Nikon D3x. If you look at what the R glass is capable of, nothing less than DMR would do. It would have to be a real camera. Do you think that an M9 with an all new "visoflex" for R would work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 2, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 2, 2009 Do you think that an M9 with an all new "visoflex" for R would work? No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted September 2, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 2, 2009 Can´t wait to try the Canon 7D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted September 2, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can´t wait to try the Canon 7D so depressing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 3, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 3, 2009 If you look at what the R glass is capable of, nothing less than DMR would do. It would have to be a real camera. Agree completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 3, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 3, 2009 Torsten, Yup, agree, a digilux 43 solution is NOT a solution for R glass. but I "fear" that this could very well be what they previous referred to as "a solution for R users" (well or something like that at least). RougeWave could no longer do his magic with the 19mm it would be 38mm and a big such one. Though I fear that this is exactly what they are thinking here. since they have officially discontinued R... a half-assed "solution" might seem good to somebody in marketing, who don't actually own any wide glass in the first place... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 3, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 3, 2009 ... a half-assed "solution" might seem good to somebody in marketing, who don't actually own any wide glass in the first place.... I was tempted to use the same language to describe this suggestion of an R solution, thanks for testing the forum language filters for me As a long-lens user I too consider a suggested 4/3 solution to be half-assed. My lenses are good for 4 times the image area of a 4/3 sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 3, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 3, 2009 LOL - ehh. woops. I love my olympus E3 and also the 150 2.0 it is a very compact and amazing lens doing what my 300 2.8 used to do on my old F4. while weighting a lot less..... BUT it is not a R lens and there need to be a full-frame solution for R users. a 2X crop factor is too much for current working users to be able to go swop a digital solution into their R workflow. The sad thing is that Leica have already build the DMR. it would not be too big of a challenge to replace the current sensor with a modern solution in a new DMR... and there is enough users out there that even without a current R camera, this would probably be a nice little niche product. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted September 3, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 3, 2009 Did we not hear that Panasonic were working on a APC or Full Frame EVIL camera at some point..? Leica also mentioned that they were working on a "solution" for the R users. Sooo, in ones imagination, what IF this is not a fixed lens camera, but is the first incarnation of a future panasonic camera. for now with one lens and a R adapter and colors tweaked for the Leica taste. 1.5x is much more acceptable for R users than 2x would be. Well, just wondering.. ha ha. I don't have any R glass so the 9 will do for me. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted September 3, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 3, 2009 1.5x is not an acceptable solution. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted September 3, 2009 Share #34 Posted September 3, 2009 One problem for Leica is that a ton of R users have already jumped ship since the R line was discontinued earlier this year. Those were potential customers for an R solution that in all likelihood are now gone, for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share #35 Posted September 3, 2009 One problem for Leica is that a ton of R users have already jumped ship since the R line was discontinued earlier this year. Those were potential customers for an R solution that in all likelihood are now gone, for good. They also lost all the M users 40 years ago to japanese SLR-cameras. But they still hang around on the street corners lusting to get back to Leica. The same goes for the R users. Never heard of a DMR-user who sold his DMR and felt great about it. They always regret a little bit and miss it. I see an end to R as I see how digital make my beloved 80/1.4 look a bit soft and milky compared to the unique 35-70/2.8 and other ASPH-lenses. It's not the same and needs to be redefined in the future for digital use. This might be through development of the S2 into a secondhand market for S2 cameras in the coming years, as well as one or more Baby S2 cameras. If somebody, a former employee of Imacon or Leica, or whoever, invent a way to upgrade and service the DMR there will be a market there for a limited time. But with no new R9 cameras being produced and no new R-lenses developed, it will end one day. That Leica will supply some sort of digital solution to the R-users I find one of the most stupid statement I've heard in recent years, till proven otherwise. What's the point in providing a future solution for a system of the past? Leica had the DMR and didn't do the DMR.2 which was the obvious next step. The R-market is dead in the sense that the dSLR users out there for the most part are brain-damaged colorblind and overweighted camera-workers who prefer to sit down and shoot. They don't care for composing, truthful color-rendering and lively 3D-look, which is why they prefer the camera system of the guy sitting next to them, with which they can shoot 8fps at f/2.8 and perhaps hit something that will fit into the newspaper or website. In short, they thinks half-assed solutions deploying hundreds of terms in the manual they can't spell, even less understand, is great. As long as everybody else uses it and it's the newest edition with the most speed and the most megapixels. Excuse my french. But that is why Leica has no chance coming up with a new R system that can compete with that concept. Because the Leica qualities such as outstanding lenses, simplicity and unique results for those who understand light, nobody in that segment really cares for or understand. Their hands shake when you say the word "manual focus." It has to some degree to do with the fact that the people they work for care more for who's in the photo than how the person looks in the photo. A good example is the portfolio just now on LIFE of Brad Pitt: The Many Faces of Brad Pitt - Photo Gallery, 38 Pictures - LIFE (Look through it and see which photo you like the best. Chances are that you stop by a B&W shot by Chris Weeks made with a M6. But reality is that they used it because it's Brad Pitt, not because it's a great shot. They really, really don't care right now. They want big names no matter how they're presented, and it's unimportant if the photo is sharp or not. No point for Leica to try to get into that market segment. So all in all, the R is dead. Just by the fact that it's not being produced anymore. The proper route is S2, and I think many of us will get there. I just don't need 37.5 MP files to complicate and slow down my workflow just yet. But the S2 concept will include the qualities Leica R users look for and are willing to pay for - some now, some when the prices get a bit lower through technology development and secondhand market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 3, 2009 Share #36 Posted September 3, 2009 They also lost all the M users 40 years ago to japanese SLR-cameras. But they still hang around on the street corners lusting to get back to Leica............ most would be there to pick up their pension or on the way to the park of the Silent Ones who are pushing up daisies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted September 3, 2009 Share #37 Posted September 3, 2009 Just ordered my full-frame digi-cam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 4, 2009 Share #38 Posted September 4, 2009 The R-market is dead in the sense that the dSLR users out there for the most part are brain-damaged colorblind and overweighted camera-workers who prefer to sit down and shoot. They don't care for composing, truthful color-rendering and lively 3D-look, which is why they prefer the camera system of the guy sitting next to them, with which they can shoot 8fps at f/2.8 and perhaps hit something that will fit into the newspaper or website. In short, they thinks half-assed solutions deploying hundreds of terms in the manual they can't spell, even less understand, is great. As long as everybody else uses it and it's the newest edition with the most speed and the most megapixels. Thorsten, how do you (actually we, I include myself) really feel about it? Honestly, you'll get no argument from me. I care much more about light, color quality, composition, timing and precision craftsmanship than about frame rates, bloated files and passable approximations of good focus. Each time I open a new file made with the DMR two things happen: 1) I have to clean drool off the computer's keyboard - 10MP never looked so gorgeous 2) I have to clean tears off the computer's keyboard, knowing that the DMR is the end of the line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted September 4, 2009 Share #39 Posted September 4, 2009 LOL - ehh. woops. I love my olympus E3 and also the 150 2.0 it is a very compact and amazing lens doing what my 300 2.8 used to do on my old F4. while weighting a lot less..... BUT it is not a R lens and there need to be a full-frame solution for R users. a 2X crop factor is too much for current working users to be able to go swop a digital solution into their R workflow. The sad thing is that Leica have already build the DMR. it would not be too big of a challenge to replace the current sensor with a modern solution in a new DMR... and there is enough users out there that even without a current R camera, this would probably be a nice little niche product. . Bo, Leica says that parts demand and economics are all issues. That sensor run is finished and you need a large run too to make those prices acceptable. Not to mention the Imacon relationship. Of course there is just no camera or lens production for a new DMR to make any commercial sense either. DMR sales (when available) were one tenth of M8 sales at that time. Obviously R9 and R lens sales just dwindled away, hence Leica having to clear their inventory at heavy discounts too. I think that M users have every sympathy for the loyal R enthusiasts. We would all be squawking if the M range had been the one to be stopped. But then of course we would have no Leica Camera AG at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted September 4, 2009 Share #40 Posted September 4, 2009 They also lost all the M users 40 years ago to japanese SLR-cameras. But they still hang around on the street corners lusting to get back to Leica. The same goes for the R users. Never heard of a DMR-user who sold his DMR and felt great about it. They always regret a little bit and miss it. I see an end to R as I see how digital make my beloved 80/1.4 look a bit soft and milky compared to the unique 35-70/2.8 and other ASPH-lenses. It's not the same and needs to be redefined in the future for digital use. This might be through development of the S2 into a secondhand market for S2 cameras in the coming years, as well as one or more Baby S2 cameras. If somebody, a former employee of Imacon or Leica, or whoever, invent a way to upgrade and service the DMR there will be a market there for a limited time. But with no new R9 cameras being produced and no new R-lenses developed, it will end one day. That Leica will supply some sort of digital solution to the R-users I find one of the most stupid statement I've heard in recent years, till proven otherwise. What's the point in providing a future solution for a system of the past? Leica had the DMR and didn't do the DMR.2 which was the obvious next step. The R-market is dead in the sense that the dSLR users out there for the most part are brain-damaged colorblind and overweighted camera-workers who prefer to sit down and shoot. They don't care for composing, truthful color-rendering and lively 3D-look, which is why they prefer the camera system of the guy sitting next to them, with which they can shoot 8fps at f/2.8 and perhaps hit something that will fit into the newspaper or website. In short, they thinks half-assed solutions deploying hundreds of terms in the manual they can't spell, even less understand, is great. As long as everybody else uses it and it's the newest edition with the most speed and the most megapixels. Excuse my french. But that is why Leica has no chance coming up with a new R system that can compete with that concept. Because the Leica qualities such as outstanding lenses, simplicity and unique results for those who understand light, nobody in that segment really cares for or understand. Their hands shake when you say the word "manual focus." It has to some degree to do with the fact that the people they work for care more for who's in the photo than how the person looks in the photo. A good example is the portfolio just now on LIFE of Brad Pitt: The Many Faces of Brad Pitt - Photo Gallery, 38 Pictures - LIFE (Look through it and see which photo you like the best. Chances are that you stop by a B&W shot by Chris Weeks made with a M6. But reality is that they used it because it's Brad Pitt, not because it's a great shot. They really, really don't care right now. They want big names no matter how they're presented, and it's unimportant if the photo is sharp or not. No point for Leica to try to get into that market segment. So all in all, the R is dead. Just by the fact that it's not being produced anymore. The proper route is S2, and I think many of us will get there. I just don't need 37.5 MP files to complicate and slow down my workflow just yet. But the S2 concept will include the qualities Leica R users look for and are willing to pay for - some now, some when the prices get a bit lower through technology development and secondhand market. Thorsten - I agree with everything you wrote there and everything Doug added too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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